Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

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zenako
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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by zenako » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:50 am

kitenerd wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:22 am

DF did a very cool thing with this lottery - they could have put them in the webstore at $500 a set and while we all would have groaned, they would have sold out - they didn't. I feel it would be low class to purchase a set in the lottery just to resell it I really want a lake expansion, would be all over a river set, but if i get drawn and there are only open water left (which i don't really want) would i buy one just for the purposes of trading it ??? I go back and forth in my head on whether that would be right. In the end i think i would probably pass at that point
In circumstances like this however, passing on the option to acquire a set you might not want, but could later trade so that the next person can get a chance has some issues. What if the next person in line is actually someone who was planning all along to just flip the set on EBAY for example. You have no way of knowing. So the goal of enabling more fans/collectors to get these parts might actually be better achieved by purchasing when you get a chance and then you control the future disposition of that set and can actually trade it to someone you are comfortable that they will use and treasure it and not flip it for cash.

I actually thought about this, since I really only wanted 2 of the 3 possible options, but decided that if I was lucky, I would take that luck and try to roll it into something I want if all that was left was the one I did not covet.

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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by AnimeSensei » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:04 pm

kitenerd wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:22 am
I have no problem with folks selling things at market rate - unless they are buying out DF inventory to do it - there have been lots of examples of this (shutters, intersections, catacombs a while back) - i feel like that is wrong (not illegal, not immoral - just selfish and not in the best interests of the community or the DF brand)
Papa_Stevie,

You are awesome and thank you for the post.

As someone who sells both here and on ebay, I totally understand and agree with you.

The only issue I have is malicious intent, which you don't show. Kitenerd summed up my issues pretty well.

You are more than welcome here and your kids are cute. :D I hope we see more of you.
102 Resin and 212 Dwarvenite Sets/Packs Owned

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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by Rabbit Burner » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:52 am

If you own it you are entitled to sell it.

If you don't own it you get another chance to buy it.

Peeps don't like missing out or feeling they are getting ripped off, Seller and Buyer often have differing views.

The issue here we think was the thought that someone entered the lottery with the sole intention of selling any set they won for profit. Therefore denying a collector the opportunity to buy a set they want to use at retail price.
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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by kodiakbear » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:37 am

I think comments from two different threads have gotten mixed up.


I am not aware of anyone in this thread lambasting anyone about selling a single resin water set.

There is another topic where many, myself included are lambasting the sale of 4 to 8 of an item for $210 each that was just in the DF store for $25 each, not because people cannot sell whatever they want but because many do not like scalpers.

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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by kitenerd » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:22 am

Papa Stevie - you are alright!

I have a lot of respect for your post and the fact that you still want to be friends with us ;)

I wouldn't call what i feel entitlement... more just a desire for something that seems unobtainable. I agree with you, i don't want it $800 worth of bad, but as long as there are those who do, my path to ownership is very narrow

I have no problem with folks selling things at market rate - unless they are buying out DF inventory to do it - there have been lots of examples of this (shutters, intersections, catacombs a while back) - i feel like that is wrong (not illegal, not immoral - just selfish and not in the best interests of the community or the DF brand)

DF did a very cool thing with this lottery - they could have put them in the webstore at $500 a set and while we all would have groaned, they would have sold out - they didn't. I feel it would be low class to purchase a set in the lottery just to resell it I really want a lake expansion, would be all over a river set, but if i get drawn and there are only open water left (which i don't really want) would i buy one just for the purposes of trading it ??? I go back and forth in my head on whether that would be right. In the end i think i would probably pass at that point

If this was part of your collection that you want to move to make room for other things because its value exceeds its utility that is totally cool. I just found out i have a few sets of dice that are worth over $100 per set (for 7 dice??? have people gone insane???) they are in a box in the garage an i am tempted to sell them because they don't mean that much to me. I will NEED to sell some DF in the future because i have bought more than i can store. I don't think most of us have any issue with this.

Anyway - good luck with your auction. I am glad you didn't decide we were all a bunch of jerks and leave mad. We may all be a bunch of jerks, but we are a community of friends too so we put up with each other ;)
"Miniatures?, sure sign of a petty mind!" - 'The Women' 1939

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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by GODofwar » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:30 pm

PS: Stevie, love the google -eye masks on your Offspring!

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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by GODofwar » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:28 pm

Papa_Stevie wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:38 pm
Hello everyone, I am Papa_Stevie and that is my eBay listing.

Wow! Some of you certainly have a lot to say about my listing and about me personally. Now that everyone has gotten it out of their systems, its time to put an end to this witch hunt.

First- I am a human being. I am a customer, supporter, and enthusiast of Dwarven Forge - both their products and the fantastic humans who work to create them. I am also a fan of the DF community that all of us, creators, moderators, and fans, contribute to.

Second- I did NOT win the recent lottery for a resin set. Like you, I submitted a single entry and did NOT receive a winner's email.

Third- The listing. Would it have made a difference if I had listed the set at $1,000? $2,000? For $400, I would rather keep the set. $500? I still keep it. $600? I'm going to review my collection. $700? I bet we could work something out. $800+? I can't afford to not sell it. This is because the set has value to me as well. I did not win this set in the recent lottery. I paid >msrp for it and eBay takes 10% and paypal another 3% of the sale.

It is not my intention to make this personal or upset anyone. I did not come to the forums with these prices. This eBay listing is my own business. But regardless, I am sorry I hurt feelings and upset this community. I wanted to get a second resin set, but did not. I do not believe that I'll have the chance at another set. Truthfully, I would love to trade this set for a complete Jade Shrine of Sysuul encounter 15 set. Have one? Send me a message and lets talk. Want to buy this set at lower than eBay prices? Message me. I posted this listing at the time I did because I cannot afford to buy another set, I did not win the lotto to buy another set, and the sets are selling for ~$700+ on eBay.

I understand that so much of this conversation is about the ethics of re-selling sets. I do not think it fair that I solely am publicly blasted for my one single set. Why not attack the eBay sellers whom are doing exactly what you despise on a money-making scale? There's a seller offering Cavern Water sets for $149 (msrp $60) in addition to marked up resin Woodlands sets. Why not publicly call them out here? When I read through this thread, I do not see camaraderie among collectors. I see a bitter and misplaced sense of entitlement. We are all equal customers, fans, consumers, and humans. This community is great, but I have also seen the ugly side of the DF community. The fanatics. I will never compare my level of "fandom" to that of other members in this community. I do not care, nor do I waste any time thinking about the hurt feelings of the trolls of the internet. But I do care about my character and my relationship with the staff of DF and this community. While in its infancy, it is a relationship that I endear. Because I too think the world of the DF team and that is entirely due to their efforts, considerations, and kindness. It would be a lie to say that those factors do not directly contribute to my decision to support their business and products. I do not want to be misrepresented to them or anyone else in this community.

I would like to take this opportunity to not only once again apologize to you all personally, but to also introduce myself a little more and give you all a chance to meet the real me. I am an honest, hard-working, and kind individual. To me, Dwarven Forge means so much more than I could go on about here. But the best thing about having a passion for something is being able to share it with others. DF has had an amazing contribution to the development of the youngest generation of my family. The imagination it provokes, the story-telling it encourages, it has helped me share with them the amazingly constructive and interactive world of tabletop role-playing and gaming. I have chosen to include some photos here to show you some of the builds that they are proud of and the fun we having playing with DF products. I encourage you to comment on them, but please be kind and think twice about what you say. This is an act of faith on my part to this community, done to encourage new beginnings and relations. Please respect that this is my family and that everyone deserves respect and kindness. Thank you for taking the time to read this post. I am very excited to participate in this community and hope to continue sharing and learning alongside all of you.

Thank you and kind regards,
Papa_Stevie

https://imgur.com/a/hHKuyA3

Papa Stevie: You are right, and the critics are wrong. Period. You were gracious to explain your rationale, but had not need to. The sets were yours (regardless ofwhere you got 'em, long as you bought 'em fair and square) and 'yours' means its perfectly ETHICAL to sell them for whatever another free buyer chooses to pay.

Good for you. "I see a bitter and misplaced sense of entitlement. "
You betcha. Nobody has an 'entitlement' to claim you are acting unethically. They have the right to speak as they wish, but the underlying arguments are not well based in reason.

What's the result of the kind of criticism we've seen a few examples of (not including everyone here)? Stevie's entirely justified letter.

My only regret is that you offered an 'apology' that is uncalled for on the part of our community. Trogs are better than this. I know because I've dealt with so many of us both financially and otherwise. In action, fine group. You owe no apology.

The Chief Least Weasel etc.
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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by GardenDM » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:35 pm

Hi Papa_Stevie,

I'm sorry that some of the posts here made you feel anything but welcome. I think most of us forum trogs are well-meaning, even if we can get overexcited in our opinions at times.

I for one feel that a seller should only ever list their product at the going price in a public forum such as eBay (one-on-one deals are another matter as they may involve goodwill, barter, or other factors). My rationale is that if you list under the going price, the other party may simply turn around and flip it for the true going rate, essentially taking those dollars out of your pocket.

And, for what it is worth, I paid for a good portion of my initial DF collection by backing the first few KSers for more than I needed and selling extras for a profit. In the end, this helped DF raise more money in the KS, it paid for a large portion of my initial collection, and it allowed people who missed out on the KS to purchase (at a higher price) that product when it wasn't available in the store for any price. That's a triple win in my books.

I'll stop there. I hope you stick around and continue to post about all things DF (especially build pictures, we love them!).

Best Regards,

E

Edit: Oh, just saw the link to the pics with the kiddos. Super cute and you all look like you're having a blast!

Papa_Stevie
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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by Papa_Stevie » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:38 pm

Hello everyone, I am Papa_Stevie and that is my eBay listing.

Wow! Some of you certainly have a lot to say about my listing and about me personally. Now that everyone has gotten it out of their systems, its time to put an end to this witch hunt.

First- I am a human being. I am a customer, supporter, and enthusiast of Dwarven Forge - both their products and the fantastic humans who work to create them. I am also a fan of the DF community that all of us, creators, moderators, and fans, contribute to.

Second- I did NOT win the recent lottery for a resin set. Like you, I submitted a single entry and did NOT receive a winner's email.

Third- The listing. Would it have made a difference if I had listed the set at $1,000? $2,000? For $400, I would rather keep the set. $500? I still keep it. $600? I'm going to review my collection. $700? I bet we could work something out. $800+? I can't afford to not sell it. This is because the set has value to me as well. I did not win this set in the recent lottery. I paid >msrp for it and eBay takes 10% and paypal another 3% of the sale.

It is not my intention to make this personal or upset anyone. I did not come to the forums with these prices. This eBay listing is my own business. But regardless, I am sorry I hurt feelings and upset this community. I wanted to get a second resin set, but did not. I do not believe that I'll have the chance at another set. Truthfully, I would love to trade this set for a complete Jade Shrine of Sysuul encounter 15 set. Have one? Send me a message and lets talk. Want to buy this set at lower than eBay prices? Message me. I posted this listing at the time I did because I cannot afford to buy another set, I did not win the lotto to buy another set, and the sets are selling for ~$700+ on eBay.

I understand that so much of this conversation is about the ethics of re-selling sets. I do not think it fair that I solely am publicly blasted for my one single set. Why not attack the eBay sellers whom are doing exactly what you despise on a money-making scale? There's a seller offering Cavern Water sets for $149 (msrp $60) in addition to marked up resin Woodlands sets. Why not publicly call them out here? When I read through this thread, I do not see camaraderie among collectors. I see a bitter and misplaced sense of entitlement. We are all equal customers, fans, consumers, and humans. This community is great, but I have also seen the ugly side of the DF community. The fanatics. I will never compare my level of "fandom" to that of other members in this community. I do not care, nor do I waste any time thinking about the hurt feelings of the trolls of the internet. But I do care about my character and my relationship with the staff of DF and this community. While in its infancy, it is a relationship that I endear. Because I too think the world of the DF team and that is entirely due to their efforts, considerations, and kindness. It would be a lie to say that those factors do not directly contribute to my decision to support their business and products. I do not want to be misrepresented to them or anyone else in this community.

I would like to take this opportunity to not only once again apologize to you all personally, but to also introduce myself a little more and give you all a chance to meet the real me. I am an honest, hard-working, and kind individual. To me, Dwarven Forge means so much more than I could go on about here. But the best thing about having a passion for something is being able to share it with others. DF has had an amazing contribution to the development of the youngest generation of my family. The imagination it provokes, the story-telling it encourages, it has helped me share with them the amazingly constructive and interactive world of tabletop role-playing and gaming. I have chosen to include some photos here to show you some of the builds that they are proud of and the fun we having playing with DF products. I encourage you to comment on them, but please be kind and think twice about what you say. This is an act of faith on my part to this community, done to encourage new beginnings and relations. Please respect that this is my family and that everyone deserves respect and kindness. Thank you for taking the time to read this post. I am very excited to participate in this community and hope to continue sharing and learning alongside all of you.

Thank you and kind regards,
Papa_Stevie

https://imgur.com/a/hHKuyA3

GODofwar
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Re: Resin Lakes and Rivers Sets!

Post by GODofwar » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:21 pm

LadySabelle wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:50 pm
GODofwar wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:20 pm
M'Lady, I'm curious for your (not official Valorian) opinion of those who buy the water sets and immediately resell them for $800....a lot of Trogs think that is scumbag/unethical behavior.

The Chief Least Weasel of Valoria (Pretendant)
Totus KS delenda Sunt
Profiteering is hard on collectors who honestly love our sets but that can not afford the inflated prices. But it's something that happens all the time. Comic books, baseball cards, and Famous Paintings are all prime examples of profiteering. We obviously want our sets in the hands of people who truly want to own them. We love our work and hope you all love it too. But I don't agree with attacking someone who decides to sell their set when there is a market demand for it. I won't pay the price the seller is asking, but I don't deny his right to ask for it.
I am always pleased to be in agreement with Lady Sabelle.

The Chief Least Weasel of Valoria (Pretendant)
Totus KS Delenda Sunt
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