Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

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crioux
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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by crioux » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:52 am


Anyway, we really should take this to the Non-Gaming forum, as it really has NOTHING to do with Indie lake pieces.
If anyone wants to continue this, I'll see ya there. If not, no big deal.

Althought I disagree with the arguments that free software is lower quality than "commercial" software, like Firefox is 100% times better than Intenet explorer, and is free. I should know, this is my job.
But this discussion does not belong here, so I'll stop.

jkratzer
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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by jkratzer » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:50 am

Dr. Jerry Pournelle said it best, and Robert A. Heinlein adopted it for his novel, "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress";

TANSTAAFL!

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - or else that beer you buy to go with it would be a lot cheaper.

I append to that:

Anything Free Is Worth What You Paid For It: I'm not sure if I created that one or stole it from someone else.

Crioux, PLEASE don't take that as a shot at you and your programming efforts; I am also a former VB programmer who loved to give away software I thought was good. Until the first time someone came back at me and complained that it 'killed their system'. What it actually did was exactly what it was supposed to do, but they didn't RTFM! I never gave awa or sold anything else for the PC.

RF*, it's true that a lot of small businesses are captive in the corporate world because their software HAS TO WORK, first time, every time. Unfortunately, that has bad attributes as well as good ones, for all entities involved.

Anyway, we really should take this to the Non-Gaming forum, as it really has NOTHING to do with Indie lake pieces.

If anyone wants to continue this, I'll see ya there. If not, no big deal.

Jim

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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by RabidFox* » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:14 pm


[quote=RabidFox*]No matter the code situation or any other such factor, I am still suspicious, with good reasons, of any software that is free.
The saying, "There is no free lunch.", is as true today as it was when coined.
No one does anything for nothing.
My view is that there will be a cost for using it in the end.

Just because something is free doesn't mean that it is cheap. It simply mean that not everyone is greedy and want to make a buck at everything they do.
I did some programs for myself, and then gave them away for free to the community. One of them I maintained for 10 years, and had messages about people using as far as poland. It doens't mean it was cheap or low quality, in fact it was better than some equivalent program that their author was charging for it. And I was the lone programmer. Imagine when you have hundreds of developpers working on one program, even companies donate some of their employee's time to work on open source software, because they use it and want to add new features. Those new features are then given aways to the rest of the world, since no one can have ownership of opensource code.

Back in the early days of computing, code and programs were free. Hardware was the way to make money. Then Microsoft came...


btw the program used to maintain these forums is Open source....
Is it?
That might be something that needs a rethink.

Did I say free was cheap or low quality crioux?
No, I did not.
My warning was quite different in its concern.

Even before the advent of MS, there was no Free Lunch crioux.
The payment will be extracted every time out of someone some how.
That payment will be in the form of something, whether money or worse, something else far more tangible, such as the business called Dwarven Forge.

If a business gets stuck on some piece of software like that, it could destroy it!
Business, especially small business, such as Dwarven Forge for example, cannot come to depend on some apparently free piece of software that is going to reach around and seriously bite them a year or more down the line.

Open code is okay, but how is it really doing in the computer world?
Not so hot.
Slowly, most of the honest and serious open code groups are being compromised and even swallowed up by some of the industry standard companies.
Even linux and MS are talking friendly.
Some of the less honest open coders have been dealt with in the American judicial system.
I would imagine there has even been a case or two in the Canadian judicial system despite the widespread leniency contained within.
At least in comparison to our own, the Canadian one seems so.

My concern is that Dwarven Forge would inadvertantly get involved with one of these and then find itself defunct.
I most certainly do not want gamble my chance of having Dwarven Forge and new Master Maze around ten years from now by advising them to work on the cheap as far as their computer software.
Do you really crioux?
The old saying, "You get what you pay for." has tested true over the centuries.
Why take the risk?

crioux
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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by crioux » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:27 pm


No matter the code situation or any other such factor, I am still suspicious, with good reasons, of any software that is free.
The saying, "There is no free lunch.", is as true today as it was when coined.
No one does anything for nothing.
My view is that there will be a cost for using it in the end.

Just because something is free doesn't mean that it is cheap. It simply mean that not everyone is greedy and want to make a buck at everything they do.
I did some programs for myself, and then gave them away for free to the community. One of them I maintained for 10 years, and had messages about people using as far as poland. It doens't mean it was cheap or low quality, in fact it was better than some equivalent program that their author was charging for it. And I was the lone programmer. Imagine when you have hundreds of developpers working on one program, even companies donate some of their employee's time to work on open source software, because they use it and want to add new features. Those new features are then given aways to the rest of the world, since no one can have ownership of opensource code.

Back in the early days of computing, code and programs were free. Hardware was the way to make money. Then Microsoft came...


btw the program used to maintain these forums is Open source....

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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by RabidFox* » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:19 pm

First crioux, I understand you believe in the software; we all see that.
No one here will argue or debate with you on that level.
Rest easy on that factor


[quote=RabidFox*]I have not used OpenOffice Suite for anything else so I cannot go on any further except with one concern.
If the software is free, why is it so?
Freeware can be a real problem for computers in a variety of ways.
Do not take me wrong crioux; I have just seen problems with other freewares out there and free work software always raises an eyebrow with me.
It always makes me wonder why it is free.

... . Maybe you have a pirated copy of MS-Oriffice (no home user would pay 300$ for it), or had it preinstalled (you still paid for it in the price of your computer) but that's no free software.

... .
No it is not anything "straight up or pirate" by MS.
The software on the machines is OpenOffice by Sun Microsystems with the latest machine having v.1.1.2.

No matter the code situation or any other such factor, I am still suspicious, with good reasons, of any software that is free.
The saying, "There is no free lunch.", is as true today as it was when coined.
No one does anything for nothing.

My view is that there will be a cost for using it in the end.
That is something Jeff must weigh when considering between trying to go on the cheap versus the reasonably priced.

crioux
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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by crioux » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:56 pm


I have not used OpenOffice Suite for anything else so I cannot go on any further except with one concern.
If the software is free, why is it so?
Freeware can be a real problem for computers in a variety of ways.
Do not take me wrong crioux; I have just seen problems with other freewares out there and free work software always raises an eyebrow with me.
It always makes me wonder why it is free.

There is a difference with Freeware, and Open Source. Freeware is a piece of software offered for free. Most of the time, it uses hidden spywares to steal your personnal info and make money out of it. The code is closed.
Open source software is free, but the source code is available for anyone to do their part and improve the program. It's a community work. Linux was the first open source software. Firefox is an open-source software too.

And since the source cocde is available, any programmer can see if there is hidden piece of malware or spyware (there isn't), unlike commercial programs. That's why a lot of governments in the world switch to open source software. It's cheaper and safer.

The way to make money with open source software is not with licensing, but with service. You actually have to "work" to make money with it, not sit on your licensing deals and make money for nothing, like M$ do.

Some companies offer support for a price. If you don't need support, it's free. Maybe you have a pirated copy of MS-Oriffice (no home user would pay 300$ for it), or had it preinstalled (you still paid for it in the price of your computer) but that's no free software.

In short, to try to stay in topic, don't send documents which require costly proprietary software to read, use PDF, which is not open document format, but is a standard royalty free format from Adobe, and can be read for free using Acobat Reader.

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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by RabidFox* » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:31 pm


It is a but off-topic, but please take a look at OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org)
It is better than M$ Office, can read and write Ms office files, can export to PDF without the need for plug-ins, can write into the Standard OpenDocument format (which all word processors support, except microsoft) and best of all is FREE.
I used it at home and at work for years, and would never go back to a 300$ piece of crap like Ms Office.

I am a bit familiar with this program.
The only reason is that the last three computers I have bought have come with the OpenOffice Suite installed.

I must say it is an excellent piece of software to preview any MS programs you are sent.
That way I can see if there are any discrepancies between the way OpenOffice and WordPerfect open the MS file.
Occasionally, rarely but it does happen, there are.

I have not used OpenOffice Suite for anything else so I cannot go on any further except with one concern.
If the software is free, why is it so?
Freeware can be a real problem for computers in a variety of ways.
Do not take me wrong crioux; I have just seen problems with other freewares out there and free work software always raises an eyebrow with me.
It always makes me wonder why it is free.

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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by RabidFox* » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:25 pm

Jim, in all my years, actually decades of using WordPerfect, I have never had that problem.
I have heard about it from a few persons, but I held the comments low on the credibility chart because every last person was a MS fanatic.
I guess I will have to think on your comment.

Jim, you mentioned v.9 WP.
You do know they are at v.12, yes?
Maybe they have cured your objection, yes?
Might want to check that out.
Jeff, if he has the same concerns as you Jim, might want to too.

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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by crioux » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:06 pm

It is a but off-topic, but please take a look at OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org)
It is better than M$ Office, can read and write Ms office files, can export to PDF without the need for plug-ins, can write into the Standard OpenDocument format (which all word processors support, except microsoft) and best of all is FREE.
I used it at home and at work for years, and would never go back to a 300$ piece of crap like Ms Office.

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Two individual Lake Set pieces now in stock

Post by jkratzer » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:33 am

RF* -

Just as an aside, as someone who has fought the good fight with Office, and with Word Perfect, I will say this.
When Word Perfect came out, way back when, it was the ONLY word processor package that had a chance against MS Word for MS-DOS. Within 6 months of introduction, it surpassed MS Word for DOS at a velocity that had Microsoft wondering, "What the &()& was THAT!" It held that distinction all the way up to WP for DOS 6.
HOWEVER, WP has one FATAL FLAW when entering the world of Windows. Because it was written for the DOS world, Word Perfect incorporated memory management in it's core programming. That allowed it to directly handle system memory above the 640K barrier that was built into MS-DOS, PC-DOS, and any OTHER Intel-system based DOS. It was GREAT! Secretaries could boot up their PCs, and the IT guys could set up the ladies' system's autoexec.bat file to go right into Word Perfect; and for 90-99% of all those secretaries and administrative assistants, that was ALL they needed - ever!
Then came MS Windows. Win 3.0, in particular.
As an operating system, which Windows was ALWAYS intended to be, and with Win95, actually became, Windows has the responsibility for memory management. That's where the job SHOULD be, with the OS. After a few false starts, Windows has become a proper OS, and it does an excellent job of managing all that RAM, all the way up to - I think - 4 GB on a workstation, and they're working on a TB limit for servers!
The problem is that Word Perfect NEVER GAVE UP MEMORY MANAGEMENT! That core programming inside Word Perfect, which as of Corel/WP 9 was still there, still tries to manage all that GB worth or RAM - and Windows keeps telling WP 'GET OUT OF MY RAM! That's MY JOB!'
Thus generating General Protection Faults - and frequently crashing PCs.
Also, Corel Draw, while it is an incredibly POWERFUL graphics program, has a user interface which could confuse a genius. In fact, I know one it DID screw up. WHich is unfortunate, because as I said, it's GREAT - except for the interface.

And that, my friend, is why I still use Office; it is either up-front intuitive, or it is a straightforward interface. I know that sounds strange for ANYTHING Micro$oft does, but there it is. The damn thing works, is why I use it. I WISH WordPerfect would get out of Memory Management, because I would LOVE to use it.
But until they butt out of where they DON'T belong, WP stays OFF my systems.

Damn it!

See ya!

Jim

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