Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

User avatar
Runeweaver
Minotaur
Minotaur
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:33 am
Location: Oregon, US

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by Runeweaver » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:39 pm

marcoreds wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:46 pm
Imho it's not just the color (though I greatly prefer the resin color).

It's that on KS2 tiles they went overboard with diving the squares in smaller pieces. If you look at a resin tile next to a KS2 tile, the KS2 looks much more "crumped", because every inch is divided into 4, 5 or more stones, all more or less of the same size.
The resin ones, each inch is a big slab, or a craked big slab.

Sure, the KS2 are more life-like, and the resin look more "regular tiled".

But for building a scene like we do for playing, also considering that there already is a division in tiles, the net result is too much "pixelation" in the look of KS2, it makes even big open spaces look more clustrophobic.
Also, this multitude of forms takes away a great deal from items you put on it. On resin tiles, a miniature or a stalagmite stands out, because the tiles do not "steal the scene", they are a background.
On KS2, the mini is one of the many little parts present in the scene, and the eye keeps trying to look at all the little stones, losing the greater picture.

Try and look again at the pictures: in any resin scene, you clearly see at once the stalagmites and the special parts. In the KS2 ones, I have a hard time pointing out where the raise pieces stand.

From what I see, it seems KS6 toned down a bit on the clutter, and moved more towards resin from this point of view (while still being more involved that resin). It's a kind of middle point.

Edit: and as to the color, the big difference I see in the resin, is that floors are a little more "greenish" than the walls. So the elevations stand out a lot more.
All this, yes. +1. I don’t think I can articulate it better.

realarete
Goblin
Goblin
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:09 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by realarete » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:12 pm

Thanks for posting these pictures! My DF collection consists of Resin Caverns, Cavern Passages, Lake and Lake expansion. After sitting on them for 10 years or so I now have the time to get back into gaming. Just in time for KS6 :) I really enjoy these resin caverns - the scope of the big pieces, the colors,their feel, they are literally just fun to build with.
I missed KS2 stuff but have no inclination to get much of it, but will have a nice chunk of KS6 coming ( The forests in particular have drawn me back into the Forge) and I think (based on the videos I've watched) they will meld nicely enough with the resin, and the option to buy small packs and sets on KS6 is amazing to target certain strengths or deficiencies in a collection.
As excited as I am for KS6 stuff, the resin I feel will stay my favorite. Bare in mind my limited exposure to DF products ... But Ive been watching a ton of videos and lurking here in the forums etc.
Last edited by realarete on Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Law
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 4613
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:26 am

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by Law » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:47 am

marcoreds wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:46 pm
Imho it's not just the color (though I greatly prefer the resin color).

It's that on KS2 tiles they went overboard with diving the squares in smaller pieces. If you look at a resin tile next to a KS2 tile, the KS2 looks much more "crumped", because every inch is divided into 4, 5 or more stones, all more or less of the same size.
The resin ones, each inch is a big slab, or a craked big slab.

Sure, the KS2 are more life-like, and the resin look more "regular tiled".

But for building a scene like we do for playing, also considering that there already is a division in tiles, the net result is too much "pixelation" in the look of KS2, it makes even big open spaces look more clustrophobic.
Also, this multitude of forms takes away a great deal from items you put on it. On resin tiles, a miniature or a stalagmite stands out, because the tiles do not "steal the scene", they are a background.
On KS2, the mini is one of the many little parts present in the scene, and the eye keeps trying to look at all the little stones, losing the greater picture.

Try and look again at the pictures: in any resin scene, you clearly see at once the stalagmites and the special parts. In the KS2 ones, I have a hard time pointing out where the raise pieces stand.

From what I see, it seems KS6 toned down a bit on the clutter, and moved more towards resin from this point of view (while still being more involved that resin). It's a kind of middle point.

Edit: and as to the color, the big difference I see in the resin, is that floors are a little more "greenish" than the walls. So the elevations stand out a lot more.

Ah, people who see what I see. :)

Yup, these are all how I see it. Agree 1000%.

The claustrophobic clutter from the poor drybrushing and the overly busy floors. It drowns out all variation in elevation, any cool little nook or crevasse - it's just not right.

If KS6 factory paint is awful, I'll have a go at retouching it. I've mostly left Dwarvenite alone except for some touch ups on individual city pieces (some of my walls just didn't get any drybrushing at all!). But I feel with all the cool elevation and style of KS6, if the paint job interferes, I'll fix it. (Didn't get unpainted because fixing prepainted is far less time consuming and expensive - I'd go through a ton of brushes and paint if I had to paint my whole pledge myself!)

User avatar
kodiakbear
Minotaur
Minotaur
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:28 am

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by kodiakbear » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:21 pm

marcoreds wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:46 pm
The resin ones, each inch is a big slab, or a craked big slab.
While you like these, it is what makes the resin cavern floor look like it should have 1960s Daleks going over it to my eyes. These big flat slab tiles just look to even, too man made. But then older minis had less flat bases so it made sense to have smooth floor tiles, if your minis could not stand up on your terrain how sad was that.

User avatar
William
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 2960
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Kent, WA
Contact:

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by William » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:03 pm

marcoreds wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:46 pm
Imho it's not just the color (though I greatly prefer the resin color).

It's that on KS2 tiles they went overboard with diving the squares in smaller pieces. If you look at a resin tile next to a KS2 tile, the KS2 looks much more "crumped", because every inch is divided into 4, 5 or more stones, all more or less of the same size.
The resin ones, each inch is a big slab, or a craked big slab.

Sure, the KS2 are more life-like, and the resin look more "regular tiled".

But for building a scene like we do for playing, also considering that there already is a division in tiles, the net result is too much "pixelation" in the look of KS2, it makes even big open spaces look more clustrophobic.
Also, this multitude of forms takes away a great deal from items you put on it. On resin tiles, a miniature or a stalagmite stands out, because the tiles do not "steal the scene", they are a background.
On KS2, the mini is one of the many little parts present in the scene, and the eye keeps trying to look at all the little stones, losing the greater picture.

Try and look again at the pictures: in any resin scene, you clearly see at once the stalagmites and the special parts. In the KS2 ones, I have a hard time pointing out where the raise pieces stand.

From what I see, it seems KS6 toned down a bit on the clutter, and moved more towards resin from this point of view (while still being more involved that resin). It's a kind of middle point.

Edit: and as to the color, the big difference I see in the resin, is that floors are a little more "greenish" than the walls. So the elevations stand out a lot more.
The different sized floor stones is what I've always thought made the mix of systems not work as seamlessly as it should have. I've modified many Cavern tiles for variety, but now I think I need to make more changes to help on this 'problem' (not a major one). I think I might meld some KS-2 floor tile stones into larger floor tiles, like the resin floors, with the green stuff. There seems to always be a list of little fixes/modifications/or just small touches to help all the different products jell better. I'm not sure I'll ever get my tiles painted. :lol: jk ;)
Sir William of the Basalt Region of Mythras
( aka: Rock Breaker Bill - Column Barron of BRoM )

User avatar
marcoreds
Orc
Orc
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:24 am

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by marcoreds » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:46 pm

Imho it's not just the color (though I greatly prefer the resin color).

It's that on KS2 tiles they went overboard with diving the squares in smaller pieces. If you look at a resin tile next to a KS2 tile, the KS2 looks much more "crumped", because every inch is divided into 4, 5 or more stones, all more or less of the same size.
The resin ones, each inch is a big slab, or a craked big slab.

Sure, the KS2 are more life-like, and the resin look more "regular tiled".

But for building a scene like we do for playing, also considering that there already is a division in tiles, the net result is too much "pixelation" in the look of KS2, it makes even big open spaces look more clustrophobic.
Also, this multitude of forms takes away a great deal from items you put on it. On resin tiles, a miniature or a stalagmite stands out, because the tiles do not "steal the scene", they are a background.
On KS2, the mini is one of the many little parts present in the scene, and the eye keeps trying to look at all the little stones, losing the greater picture.

Try and look again at the pictures: in any resin scene, you clearly see at once the stalagmites and the special parts. In the KS2 ones, I have a hard time pointing out where the raise pieces stand.

From what I see, it seems KS6 toned down a bit on the clutter, and moved more towards resin from this point of view (while still being more involved that resin). It's a kind of middle point.

Edit: and as to the color, the big difference I see in the resin, is that floors are a little more "greenish" than the walls. So the elevations stand out a lot more.

User avatar
AnimeSensei
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 4034
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:03 pm
Location: South Weber, UT

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by AnimeSensei » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:56 pm

DevGuy wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:22 pm
I have no KS2 and have not seen the pieces in person. Based on these pics alone, the resin’s muted colour tones look far better. KS2 caverns, by comparison, looks noisy. individual KS2 pieces look nice enough, but when I see an entire layout, it’s too much.

Anyone know why DF have chosen to go with such a heavy + high contrast dry brush? Is it to give the impression that dwarvenite has more detail than resin (it doesn’t)?

I love the look of KS6. I hope the dry brushing there ends up a little less in your face.

/opinion
To be honest, I feel it was a factory decision. Here's why:

During KS1, Stefan's paint guide included a gray layer before doing the drybrushing. The factory painted pieces didn't include the gray paint step. I'm extrapolating data here, but why would DF put out paint guides that included a color not used on the factory painted pieces? I'm guessing they either had to cut back on steps to maintain profitability or were just as surprised as all of us when they came missing that paint step. Either way, that was what dwarvenite dungeons now looked like.

Going into KS2 if you look at all of the prototypes, they are a different color (more brown) than what was produced by the factory. My best guess is the factory or DF tried to cut costs down by keeping the same paint scheme. We all anticipated browner caverns than our dungeons, but they came with the same highlight color as the dungeons. I think it was a cost-cutting measure, but I don't know if it was DF or the factory that made the decision.

I think during KS1 and KS2 the goal was to go as cheaply as possible to get the product to the masses. In KS3, DF tried to up their quality of offerings, and you'll notice they changed the stone color for the KS3 sets, and again in KS4. I think they were trying to make the dwarvenite sets look better than KS1/KS2, but we all complained that they didn't look good next to our KS1/KS2 sets so in KS5, DF decided to have them work with the KS1 color scheme. I anticipate the KS6 caverns pieces to blend seamlessly with the KS2 caverns, just like KS5 did with KS1.

It all comes down to that initial choice to skip a gray paint step in my opinion, it kind of set the course for a lot of the color decisions for dwarvenite.
106 Resin and 159 Dwarvenite Sets/Packs Owned

DevGuy
Orc
Orc
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:21 am

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by DevGuy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:22 pm

I have no KS2 and have not seen the pieces in person. Based on these pics alone, the resin’s muted colour tones look far better. KS2 caverns, by comparison, looks noisy. individual KS2 pieces look nice enough, but when I see an entire layout, it’s too much.

Anyone know why DF have chosen to go with such a heavy + high contrast dry brush? Is it to give the impression that dwarvenite has more detail than resin (it doesn’t)?

I love the look of KS6. I hope the dry brushing there ends up a little less in your face.

/opinion

User avatar
kodiakbear
Minotaur
Minotaur
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:28 am

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by kodiakbear » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:33 pm

If I was DMing at somebodies house who owned both and I want to use both I would use Dwarvenite caverns as the caverns that were less flooded with water and the resin as the wetter more often flooded caverns, The very smooth floors of the resin make me think of the kind of cavers that are under running water often.

Law
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 4613
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:26 am

Re: Resin cavern vs. KS2 cavern

Post by Law » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:14 pm

Figured I'd complete the concept by posting some old pics of a layout that mixed the two.

I have to admit, I find these interesting, but I was never wild about them. I don't think this looks terrible, per se, but it didn't excite me. I prefer my resin caverns on their own, and I think KS6 is going to give me exciting Dwarvenite caverns. I doubt I'll mix the two.
Attachments
IMG_9058.jpg
IMG_9058.jpg (68.42 KiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_9016.jpg
IMG_9016.jpg (63.11 KiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_9011.jpg
IMG_9011.jpg (89.68 KiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_9006.jpg
IMG_9006.jpg (75.03 KiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_9005.jpg
IMG_9005.jpg (85.53 KiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_8999.jpg
IMG_8999.jpg (60.19 KiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_8998.jpg
IMG_8998.jpg (49.87 KiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_8996.jpg
IMG_8996.jpg (73.03 KiB) Viewed 449 times
IMG_8994.jpg
IMG_8994.jpg (62.33 KiB) Viewed 449 times

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SpaceMonkey and 2 guests