Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ?

shade_1313
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Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ?

Post by shade_1313 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:38 am

stefan, the cavern entrance does sound cool... so does a couple of sci fi to cavern conversion pieces, maybe sold individually? *nudge nudge, wink wink*

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Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ?

Post by Wereweasel » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:47 am

Agreed.

There are some lines (Caverns and Lakes) that require an additional set -(containing new and missisng pieces) to bring them into their "prime". For example:

Caverns need stairs, a cave opening, various (lg & sm) pillars, chasm ledges and "other" stalactites.

Lakes needs some form of a waterfall and the various missing corner pieces and possibly even a surpise piece or two.

Fantasy needs that elusive Doors and Walls set to provide a variety of different styled/sized doors, and some select wall pieces with windows, chains, bars etc. Again, a selection of these items used throughout a MM dungeon would IMHO, enhance the layouts considerably. I am not suggesting that this (the MM) line could not expand, but rather that the present line is somewhat limited/lacking in these areas and could, perhaps use addressing before moving on to other genres.

Once the above lines/genres are more-or-less settled, it may be easier for DF to venture into newer and/or complimentary lines, whilst continually expanding the MBS, Sci-Fi and DOE lines - as has started already.

BTW, when I critique DF stuff as "lacking" I refer only to the variety of available pieces.
It is the fact that I find the design, detailing and craftsmanship of DF pieces so exceptional that "missing" pieces or extensive repetition (in larger setups) tends to detract from said detailing. By requesting these various pieces I am hoping to see all of these DF sets supported to their full aesthetic and functional potential.

Just my opinion on where I would like to see DF venture in the future.

Hopefully...

WW

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Post by RabidFox* » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:48 pm

I agree with both Green_Knight and Jim.
I really do not think Dwarven Forge should try out door terrain.
BUT
if DF must:
I do agree with Jim that if they try it, they should do that years down the line please?

Can we all settle down, just a bit please, and get Stefan and gang to work on the five genres (Fantasy, Cavern, Sci-Fi, DoE and MBS) we are already provided?
Let's get the last three up to continual viability status, fill-in some cool things for all five and pick up any missing holes in all of these lines before we encourage DF to go venturing off into the unknown.

Yes, for those who wish to lecture me and remind me that the outdoor terrain may just only be a wish, let me point out that I am reacting to the issue no differently and no more strongly than the prior posters have reacted.

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Post by Zaltar of Valoria » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:40 pm

Cavern entrance sounds good...

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Post by jackattack » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:21 am

There aren't many miniature buildings out there that I like, and there are none whose interiors I would use in skirmishing. So I REALLY like MBS.

Fenryll recently introduced a "cavern entrance" piece that could be (re?)painted to match DF, but I can't vouch for scale/fit.

A few issues regarding outdoor terrain:

Hexes vs squares vs nothing. I LOVE DF's floor-squares, coming from a gaming tradition that counts movement demarcations rather than using rulers or tape measures. But I strongly prefer to use hexes for outdoor environments.

Variety of ground cover, and transition pieces. There is a ridiculous number different types of ground surface -- grass, dirt, paved, sand, snow, tundra, water, ice, and so on. Add to the mix various features to modify those surfaces -- trees, rocks, streams, flowers, bushes, etc. You have dozens of different lines to produce, and somebody somewhere wants every last one of them. You also need transitions between many of them (and shoreline for all of them). It is a huge undertaking, one that would occupy a company all by itself. I've mentioned this idea before, but IF DF did go in this direction, they might be better off creating or licensing a second company (or team within the existing company) to handle all things outdoorsy, with careful guidelines to keep everything compatible.
Favorite Pieces: Chasms, 45 Degree Passages, River & Lava Banks, Ledges, Large Curved Walls, Elevation Arch

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Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ?

Post by Green_knight » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:54 am

i agree with crioux,
i'm in miniature gaming for years and building good looking outdoor terrain is easy.

DF is too expensive to get it for outdoor setting. Even the mbf would be used for
encounters in inns and taverns. Real miniature buildings look far better than modular
build one out of DF stuff (sorry DF).

I have a great collection of DF for the one reason: building underground, modular
terrain pieces out of hirst arts blocks or foamcore is a pain in the ass in my opinion.
In this area the price of the DF stuff is unmatched (especially for the cavern water pieces)

Think they would be better off not trying to do any kind of stuff.
There is plenty of outdoor stuff available. And i feel no need for "floors" in outdoor areas,
aside from cobblestone streets and the like.

But as jkratzer said the cave entrance would be a tempting piece to round of the cavern sets.

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Post by Law » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:34 am

I agree with people that in general DF need not compete with the people who do outdoor stuff -- some model railroading trees and flock on hardwood and PRESTO! Why would we need DF?

But at the same time -- look how many of us are using cavernous water as REGULAR water. Look at the temptation to give the MBS stuff a "town" to reside in.

Given how "niche" DF is right now, with smaller runs for direct sales only.... I don't know. If there's a demand and they could sell it, why not?

I'd like to see something like this:

A "wilderness" environment, with pieces like the cavern set, a really big "footprint" as opposed to the many smaller pieces in the other sets. It could have some basic grass and rocks and freestanding boulders or even hills that could be rearranged for any number of wilderness enounters -- a MODULAR wilderness table, which is of course DF's stock in trade. Why couldn't we just make this ourselves?

Welll.....1 ) We could, but we could make ANYTHING wiht HA, and a lot of DF fans DON'T. This isn't a demographic that does scratch building, for the most part. So that doesn't COMPLETELY demolish the appeal of this plan.

Also... 2) The elements could be designed to work with previous DF sets. There could be transitional pieces, like elaborate entrances to MBS or Dungeon settings, or of course a huge Cavern entrance. They could be in the form of walls or holes in the ground. Either way, it would lend the whole set a more DF-specific appeal, make it slightly less likely that it could be scratch built...


I can also imagine a "Township" set -- even MORE appealing, and probably something to be done sooner than a wilderness set. The township set would have...

1) cobblestone streets (possible to make with Plasticard, HA, or Christmas decoration stuff, but a lot harder than just trees and grass, more appropriate for a DF product)

2) open plaza areas, with appropriately decorated tiles. Very cool

3) Freestanding fountain to go anywhere, like any respectable town should have

4) Signs, both directional and building signs compatible with MBS

5) Sewer gratings, assuming there will one day be a DF Sewer set.... ;)

6) Maybe even five or so townsfolk, since the minis might not sell separately, but anyone with a town set might appreciate a Town Cryer, Sleeping Drunk, Harlot, Constable, or Innkeeper. And make 'em generic enough that those who buy several township sets also get an appropriately generic rabble of townsfollk.

7) if possible, roof pieces....

I really think this could work - a great setting for gaming, compatible with MBS both literally and also in the more general sense of catering to the above-ground gaming crowd.... Harder to build from scratch, in fact much closer to just using HA than something like trees-n-grass, so it doesn't have the same competition from elsewhere....

The DF business plan should, I agree, mostly aim to bring in NEW people, and things like MBS does that, I believe. And the SF stuff needs expansion, and the other sets can get some expansions as well. But ONE DAY, I think it does make sense for a few sets like this, that maybe don't bring in new folks, but certainly stand a chance of selling well amongst the DF hardcore fans. I am nearly positive this sort of set could easily sell out to the fans already buying DF, but I do agree that it probably wouldn't bring in new blood at all -- non-fans would look at it, see the price, and think "I could do that myself." So it's a "one day" daydream, but still a workable one I think.

L

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Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ?

Post by jkratzer » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:52 am

I agree with Dave to some extent. Stefan DID say something a few dozen threads ago about wanting to make outdoors stuff, but that it was WAY-Y-Y down the pipeline!
ONE thing that I believe needs to be done SOON for caverns is an entrance; specifically, a natural cavern entrance, ground-level type. THAT is the ONE 'outdoors' piece that DF MUST DO ASAP, because it is a perfect capstone (no pun intended, but now that it happened, I love it!) for the Caverns series. Beyond that, I think we can actually let the cavern series run as it stands for a while, and see how it settles out.
We need to expand Sci-Fi and MBS now, major league; we need DoE to expand deluxe room set style; too many people here have howled and whined - justifiably - that there aren't enough walls for the floors and corners and passages, oh my! The DoE WA set, coming in December, looks good, and will add to the functionality of the other DoE pieces, but without serious wall expansion, DoE is doomed (which also makes sense, or else we'd all be doomed!).
Sci-Fi needs serious attention, especially in the furniture and accessory department (good God, am I actually saying that? YIKES!!!); MBS, ditto. The MBS Accessory set coming in will also be a GREAT addition to that line. But DF MUST support the Sci-Fi line or it will die a horrible death of neglect. Perhaps contracting it out to Tony Colasante would help; Stefan mentioned somewhere, after I was raving about how great Tony's add-on floor pieces were, that Tony did the original sculpts for the Sci-Fi line. There's the secret on Sci-Fi, Jeff; sign Tony up and turn him loose! Let him concentrate on Sci-Fi, while Stefan attacks MBS and the cavern entrance - and the DoE 6" walls.

Enough ranting from me; let's go to work.

See ya!

Jim

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Dunjeon : ok /Cavern : ok / Den set of Evil : ok / Medieval : ok AIR ?

Post by David Wasilewski » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:24 am

I agree with HeroQuestFrance, it would be great to have some 'outdoor' tiles. Sure there are plenty of alternatives we can buy or make but isn't this true to the same extent with the dungeoun stuff too? I would buy garden/sidewalk (thats pavements to us Europeans) wilderness/forest tiles if DF made them and they were good. I remember the (not so long ago!) debate over whether or not DF should make buildings. Many people did not think this was a good idea for the same reasons. Look at the MBS range go!

I do think there are probably other things Stefan needs to make first though - I suspect 'the great outdoors' will happen someday but probably not for another year or two at least.

Dave :)

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Post by crioux » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:07 am

I don't think it would happen. It so easy and cheap to make a outdoor setting, trees from model railroad, or simply printouts (there are plenty available for free on the net, made especially for D&D. I use them a lot: prinout for a campsite, forest, roads, rivers etc.. and it only cost the ink from my printer.

And usually outdoors are completely open, so you don't need passages and walls like we do in Dungeons.

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