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Ghenghis Ska
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Post by Ghenghis Ska » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:24 am

It was what i said i would do in this post within this thread.




Now who can tell me how to put together some set-ups for my new swag: 4 Starters, 4 Passage, and 2 Alpha.

What are most folks playing? SW minis, Space Hulk, Mechwarrior, SW RPG, Mechwarrior?


I am mainly playing SWd20RPG, and that is what the DF was bought for,

Look for the Czerka Corprate Headquarters thread on Wedensday night or Thursday in the Cool pics thread. (I'll most likely put them on my Webapage too, most likely more here than there, but will put up a link to here.)

It was posted only Yesterday, in the middle of all of a bunch of other stuff.
I still had some caffine in my system when i got home, from the game so i posted them tonight.

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Post by Guest » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:02 am


Mighty Zug put them up in this thread

http://dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforums/v ... .php?t=567


I must have missed something GS.

The only pics in that thread are yours GS.

Is there something a few of us are missing here?

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Post by Ghenghis Ska » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:54 am

Mighty Zug put them up in this thread

http://dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforums/v ... .php?t=567

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Post by Guest » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:21 pm


Your posting makes it sound like I am starting all this off.



Ah, but you have. Allow me to refresh your memory.


There was the mapmaker issue where people made great efforts to lie and be hysterical about DF.
Yes, I pointed out some really ridiculous behavior and some immoral behavior as well, but I was not the only one.



You refer to this thread:
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforu ... .php?t=521

In which a board member made a strongly-worded request to DF to finish the mapmaker program. You responded immediately with insults in big red letters. Later, you took very vocal and colorful delight in the demise of that program, which many people on this forum were looking forward to using.

Did you take a look at the real start?
You are so off by almost a year of the ravings that KenM started and MM continued.
Actually, MM was fairly sane compared to KenM's comments of: there being a DF conspiracy against gamers with this not coming out; that DF had promised us the mapmaker and now they were practicing unethical business practices since they were not delivering; etc.
Where you start the flow off is at almost the end of the issue when the conflict was already in full swing.
Is this a piece of yellow journalism, YC

You would have to read through this entire index:
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforu ... um.php?f=6
to get an anywhere near accurate impression of the whole situation.

Are you now joining some of the baseless belittlers with this method of selective cutting YC?


There was when I tried to help out dikydd and everything took off because of one sentence whose tone was apologized for a few lines later.
What happened there?


You refer to this thread:
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforu ... .php?t=556

dikydd asked a simple question, and you responded with "If you had bothered to keep up with your reading." You've said since that you apologized in that same PM, but that was not so much an apology as a backhanded way of saying "yeah, I sound angry, but it's your fault."

Where did I say he was why I was angry?
Again selective quoting YC.

Here is the line I believe you are attempting to paraphrase badly:

I am sorry for the tone, but it has been a long day and you do not seem to have been reading what you should and therefore, you hit a nerve.


I simply said because of two factors he had hit a nerve.
In my book and experience that does not mean angry.
It means an irritation.
Angry is much, MUCH more involved.

I still standby the precept that someone, who is registered on this forum, should keep up on the reading.
If all a person has is just a question for DF staff, they should use the contact screen on the DF WEB page, rather than registering on the forum and ask directly.
DF does answer those messages fairly quickly from what I have been informed.
We all have seen since the start of the DF forum that admin is NOT quick to answer questions on the forum.


So YC are you saying I am showing you contempt when I have been sharing ideas for your gameroom with you?
Or is that the "little", of "the little but contempt" I have shown everyone on the forum.
So my complements to L about his paint jobs are contempt?
My compliments to both IO and Tom of France about the coolness and skill of their MM layouts in nothing but contempt?
My compliments to willypold are contempt?
I can go on with other positive examples YC.
Do you see the problem with your of critique of me?
How unfair, inaccurate and double standard it is?



Nowhere in my post did I say you've shown contempt for everyone. You have, however, shown contempt for a large number of users who, in my opinion, are not deserving of such ire. You and I have been able to engage in discussions, but only because I have chosen to focus on the point you're making and not the manner in which you are making it. However, that does not mean I excuse or endorse the way you conduct yourself on these boards.

But you certainly implied it.
My wife is an incredibly mild mannered individual and that is how she took what you said immediately.

I asked my question to give you an opportunity to explain yourself which you have now.
The original statement gave a definite impression that you claim now was not your intention.

What you consider contempt is actually irritation and frustration with persons who refuse to look beyond their own little sphere and what the situation is nationwide or larger.
Then again, I have had to deal with such narrow-mindedness at retailer meetings, where they could not give a whack about retailers anywhere but in their own areas.
Too many could not understand that market trends on the other side of the country could actually affect their business.

Too many gamers are the identical way.
All they care about is what they themselves use for gaming and wish the rest of us off in hell for all they care.
There are several of that ilk on this very forum, and they are a continual source of irritation to me.
The second I try to broaden their view to make their lives even the tiniest bit easier, I am told I am picking on them.
Yeah, ssuuurrrreeeee.
All of a sudden, I am the worst bully since Attila the Hun when all I tried to do is help them.


Take a clear look at it all YC.
Yes, I give back as good, if not better, than I receive, but I do not truly start it.


Here I must disagree.

Of course you would; you have shown us all your ideas quite well on the subject with the selective quoting you have done.

I must disagree still.
All I have done, when I have disagreed with persons' posts, is simply point out wrong information, behaviors and habits that would be wrong in most parts of adult life, and as a result of such information sharing, I received a huge heaping of calumny for my efforts.
My hypothesis of this situation is that certain persons here have decided that they are to be offended by what I say, no matter what I say or how nice I say it, they are, surprise - surprise, offended.


If people would simple talk to me calmly about what they feel are the ways I have been mean to them, not the chorus line that MM outs together, it can be worked out.


Why not take the lead and respond calmly and without insult to those who you disagree with, and those who you feel are wronging you? You have talked about morality on those boards. Would not such an approach constitute a moral high ground?

YC, even when I do talk calmly, I still get the offended Greek god or offended virgin reactions.
There have been postings I have gone WAY out of my way to be nice and calm and have still received vitriolic contempt in reply.
Again, my hypothesis of this situation is that certain persons here have decided that they are to be offended by what I say, no matter what I say or how nice I say it.


Look at brvheart and I; we were able to work out our problem with a sentence and a word.
dikydd and I have worked out our problem once everyone else shut up.


Problems which began with the tone of your messages.

My tone was that because I would not back off what I knew and felt to be true.
If that is crime here, this would make this place a joke filled with offenders.
You would be one as well YC.

brvheart was able to handle the tone, if it was a problem for him at all, and continue the discussion.
Furthermore, we were able to end it amiably.


I think it is incredible how one-sided things have been here from the very beginning.
When someone protests about how I have allegedly treated them, a good many then sing the tune with them.
From the very first, when I have protested how I have been treated, I just receive about how I deserve the calumny.
No double standard there at all, eh YC?



No double standard at all. If I or any other member of this board had responded in similar fashion to the posts I mention above (and others,) the result would have been the same.

So you say that if anyone here responded to a posting in that manner would be reaping the same calumny as I?
Is that really what you are saying?
Then why have they not been condemned every time as well?
The only posting that has been really condemned that I have seen in all of the time I have been here, which is five days longer than you - not a significant time difference, is MM's little poll which was so blatantly divisive and inciteful that it could not help but be called down.
Even then, you joined him in condemning me.
Did you actually think we all were so stupid that we could not get the gist of what you typed there YC?
Should I condemn you as you have me then?

See, there is a double standard that you have convinced yourself does not exist YC.


YC, I honestly think the situation has become a habit and folks need to truly break the habit and take a clear look at it.



I would respectfully invite you to do the same.

I should not defend myself when attacked?
Are you asking any other sane individual to let themselves be attacked by whomever feels the whim?

Moreover, when someone lies about DF or their motivations, a reasonable individual is supposed to let the lies go unchecked?
Do you even like DF YC?



I am truly sorry to say YC, but the situation will stay the same, my reactions to it will stay the same and all will continue as it has until the habit is broken and the double standard done away with.
If you do not like the situation YC, then change it.


I feel I've already done all I can and said all I can on this issue. Right now, the only one who can change the situation is you.

That last statement is SO untrue YC.
MrMorden, Ken, Otherworld, Mighty Zug and others of the same ilk can definitely change the situation quite well as well.
More than I can actually after seriously looking at the forum's postings on the whole.

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Post by Guest » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:09 pm


So much for not trying to cause a flame war, eh Jeditemple?

So you play the low road where knowledge, experience and credentia are meaningless because they disagree with your personal view which may have blinders on it, eh Jeditemple?
If the masses do not like the situation, they can just throw around names and negative adjectives perfectly innocently, eh Jeditemple?
If you do not like honesty, always twist it around to where somehow it is dishonesty, eh Jeditemple?
I believe someone said, "Calling evil, good and calling good, evil" was wrong.
Do y'all really want to live lies?
Is that not overcomplicating life even at the lowest moral level?

Folks, if you do not want me to treat you this way, then do not treat me this way.
Then again, I am just some idiot, who does not know at all what I am talking about despite extensive pertinent experience, so says the folks who think they know everything, but have almost none of the necessary experience to back their faulty thesis.

RabidFox, what's with all the "eh's"? Are you from Canada or something? Do you ever sit back and actually listen to yourself speak? LOL! I've read some pretty interesting posts before, but your arrogrance and self-delusion are truly remarkable. I'm sitting here, laughing at you, because you must have spent a couple of hours spewing venom into your keyboard at your mom's house. It's hilarious that you take yourself so seriously and spend SO much time typing your silly rebuttal. You truly crack me up, because in the time you spent on this thread, you could have written a novel. Albeit, not a good novel. :)

So you HAVE answered the question jeditemple; YOU ARE trying to get a flame war going.
How lovely of and for you.
Sorry, I am not going to rise to your juvenial bait.
YOU are simply not worth it.

BTW, my mother has been dead these twenty years come Dec. '06, and the house I write at is mine free and clear.
So much for that attempt at belittlement.

jeditemple
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Post by jeditemple » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:16 pm


So much for not trying to cause a flame war, eh Jeditemple?

So you play the low road where knowledge, experience and credentia are meaningless because they disagree with your personal view which may have blinders on it, eh Jeditemple?
If the masses do not like the situation, they can just throw around names and negative adjectives perfectly innocently, eh Jeditemple?
If you do not like honesty, always twist it around to where somehow it is dishonesty, eh Jeditemple?
I believe someone said, "Calling evil, good and calling good, evil" was wrong.
Do y'all really want to live lies?
Is that not overcomplicating life even at the lowest moral level?

Folks, if you do not want me to treat you this way, then do not treat me this way.
Then again, I am just some idiot, who does not know at all what I am talking about despite extensive pertinent experience, so says the folks who think they know everything, but have almost none of the necessary experience to back their faulty thesis.

RabidFox, what's with all the "eh's"? Are you from Canada or something? Do you ever sit back and actually listen to yourself speak? LOL! I've read some pretty interesting posts before, but your arrogrance and self-delusion are truly remarkable. I'm sitting here, laughing at you, because you must have spent a couple of hours spewing venom into your keyboard at your mom's house. It's hilarious that you take yourself so seriously and spend SO much time typing your silly rebuttal. You truly crack me up, because in the time you spent on this thread, you could have written a novel. Albeit, not a good novel. :)

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Post by Yukon Cornelius » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:24 am


Your posting makes it sound like I am starting all this off.



Ah, but you have. Allow me to refresh your memory.


There was the mapmaker issue where people made great efforts to lie and be hysterical about DF.
Yes, I pointed out some really ridiculous behavior and some immoral behavior as well, but I was not the only one.



You refer to this thread:
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforu ... .php?t=521

In which a board member made a strongly-worded request to DF to finish the mapmaker program. You responded immediately with insults in big red letters. Later, you took very vocal and colorful delight in the demise of that program, which many people on this forum were looking forward to using.


There was when I tried to help out dikydd and everything took off because of one sentence whose tone was apologized for a few lines later.
What happened there?


You refer to this thread:
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforu ... .php?t=556

dikydd asked a simple question, and you responded with "If you had bothered to keep up with your reading." You've said since that you apologized in that same PM, but that was not so much an apology as a backhanded way of saying "yeah, I sound angry, but it's your fault."



So YC are you saying I am showing you contempt when I have been sharing ideas for your gameroom with you?
Or is that the "little", of "the little but contempt" I have shown everyone on the forum.
So my complements to L about his paint jobs are contempt?
My compliments to both IO and Tom of France about the coolness and skill of their MM layouts in nothing but contempt?
My compliments to willypold are contempt?
I can go on with other positive examples YC.
Do you see the problem with your of critique of me?
How unfair, inaccurate and double standard it is?



Nowhere in my post did I say you've shown contempt for everyone. You have, however, shown contempt for a large number of users who, in my opinion, are not deserving of such ire. You and I have been able to engage in discussions, but only because I have chosen to focus on the point you're making and not the manner in which you are making it. However, that does not mean I excuse or endorse the way you conduct yourself on these boards.



Take a clear look at it all YC.
Yes, I give back as good, if not better, than I receive, but I do not truly start it.


Here I must disagree.



If people would simple talk to me calmly about what they feel are the ways I have been mean to them, not the chorus line that MM outs together, it can be worked out.


Why not take the lead and respond calmly and without insult to those who you disagree with, and those who you feel are wronging you? You have talked about morality on those boards. Would not such an approach constitute a moral high ground?



Look at brvheart and I; we were able to work out our problem with a sentence and a word.
dikydd and I have worked out our problem once everyone else shut up.


Problems which began with the tone of your messages.



I think it is incredible how one-sided things have been here from the very beginning.
When someone protests about how I have allegedly treated them, a good many then sing the tune with them.
From the very first, when I have protested how I have been treated, I just receive about how I deserve the calumny.
No double standard there at all, eh YC?



No double standard at all. If I or any other member of this board had responded in similar fashion to the posts I mention above (and others,) the result would have been the same.



YC, I honestly think the situation has become a habit and folks need to truly break the habit and take a clear look at it.



I would respectfully invite you to do the same.



I am truly sorry to say YC, but the situation will stay the same, my reactions to it will stay the same and all will continue as it has until the habit is broken and the double standard done away with.
If you do not like the situation YC, then change it.


I feel I've already done all I can and said all I can on this issue. Right now, the only one who can change the situation is you.

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Post by Guest » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:10 am

This whole return posting is quite interesting MZ.
It is so rife with erroneous ideas and contentions, I wonder how you were not embarrased to post it.
It is interesting to watch a person's pride take them right into the minefield that their alleged expertise should have warned them to not enter.


In his case he tries to lay claim to financial knowledge that contradicts what I have said when his experience is no where in this specialty, but because he is offended from other items, he has to take his club to me and prove somehow that his knowledge beats mine into the earth despite possessing no in-area expertise...without the pertinent information, knowledge and experience to actually be correct?
If MZ wanted to explain to us all how off base we are with our concerns about DF's future, I would welcome the posting.
I just hope that he could do so with honest credentia, actual data


Let me put this to bed. I've worked in finance and securities for the better part of my professional life. I've held a securities license. My educational background is economics, which I've studied at Harvard and now Wisconsin. I'd like to think I know a thing or two about business, finance, and how to read a corporate financial statement, interpret business metrics and talk intellegently about the valuing the future earnings of a business (especially if it makes widgets in a perfectly competitive market :rolleyes: ). There are more mutual funds than securities. This should remind anyone in the game that the principal competitive advantage in finance is the ability to accumulate good data and evaluate business metrics. Telling a good company from a bad company is the game. While I was in the game I played it well, I was a contrarian and all of my recommendations were solid plays. I demanded absolutely strong metrics to back up any projections, and I never pushed a play because it had momentum even when there was money to be made. I like the Value approach to understanding a business, and I know enough to know when someone doesn't know anything, and I also know where I don't know anything (which is actually a hell of a lot of places hence the return to University).

You claimed that you had worked for two of the largest financial concerns in the US; you still have not bothered to define those.
Are you hiding something?
Sounds like it me.

Some of us have gone to university more than once as well MZ.
We have accumulated degrees and work experience that make us just as much experts in our areas as you claim in yours.
Did you enjoy trying to demean the entire rest of the range of DF forum posters with your greatness.
Humility finally showed through a little with the last half of a compound sentenceand its parethentical at the very end.


Without access to the financials I couldn't even begin to comment on the future, profitablity, or viability of Dwarven Forge. Even commenting could potentially create problems on my U-4, as this is reasonably a public forum. Anyone prosletizing about the solvency of this gaming concern who:

Was a cash register jockey for a game store that went under
Was a paintbrush for a game company that went under
Was a phone rep for a game company that doesn't feel they were recognized for the genius they know themselves to be is not qualified to comment on the issue. That I do know.


You evidently do not know squat MZ about the gaming industry.

I think it is quite clever of you to try to hook me in with all of the negatives of the companies I worked for.
Intelligent readers here though will not fall for your aspersions, but for clarity's sake let me clean up your mess a bit:

The three stores I am currently working with/assisting are doing just fine.
The main difference from these and the other is that the owners are not dipping in their tills in these three.
Furthermore, the money to support the existence of these stores is still available and not spent on trips to Las Vegas or Jackpot, NV.

The game store, that did go under, went under long after I departed.
As far as being a cash register jockey, in actuality, I almost never touched the cash register because of my intention to personally cover my own butt against somehow being connected to the owner's dipping in his own till.
I was a floor salesman, gaming referee and terrain maker/model builder/figure painter for the store, but with a focus on sales.
I made sure I was, at worst, third in line to use the register if not fourth.

The company that you so eloquently put that I was a brush for, which by itself is much more than you can say though about being in the industry, went under due to the hostile efforts of another company in the industry or are you accusing me of being an covert industrial operative at the time.
Please maestro, can we segue in the Bond Theme at this point.?

Finally, where in the world did I say I upset was not being recognized for a genius by GW?
My jaw hits the floor every time I read that claim.
Your argument MZ is so weak you have to create arguments or skew data to fit your thesis, which mind you, is terribly flawed in the first place.
I am really curious with what you created this little delusion from.
Frankly, I think you made it whole cloth.


Most gaming companies are not the ideal investment for capital if profit maximization is your standard. However, if money and this false god does not guide your life, you are passionate about an industry, and you have a viable product, and you have a means of production secured at costs below your long term marginal revenue curve, then hey go for it.

Dwarven Forge is not a homogenous product competing with similar competitors. They are selling, regarding their terrain, a product for which there is not a readily available competitive alternative. They are selling a product in a market which is supported by discretionary income. This is also a product in a growth industry, yet with a very real ceiling upon future earnings growth. Dwarven Forge could hope to saturate the gaming market for terrain, but ultimately Dwarven Forge and future earnings are going to be subject to the size of the gaming market, and their market share therein.


Well, at least you have some of the vocabulary down MZ.
I have been around real experts in various fields in my occupation and each time you go at me it makes me wonder even more about those two companies you worked (past tense) for.

I must credit you with at least one correct statement in this section:

Most gaming companies are not the ideal investment...

But you did not truly tell folks why MZ?
Let me.
The average life expectancy of a game company depending on the stat source is one of two periods: 9 years or 11 years.
If you remove companies like GW, FASA, GDW, and that ilk of ~20 & more year old companies, the average life expectency drops drastically to 4 & 6 years.
The idea is if you were to invest funds then you want to invest in a market that does not change so radically in such short periods of time.
How do I get these stats?
By asking I guy I knew at GAMA and from an economics professor I have gamed with off and on for 20 years who has been gaming a couple years longer than even I have who has actually paid attention to the industry for over 30 years because it involves his hobby and profession.

You have a couple other issues going in the right direction such as means of production and market share issues, but you do not look at how these truly affect companies in such a small market in the first place, let alone the rather minute area of a niche market within that general market.
MZ, did you even read Stefan's posting about the history of DF?
That would have given you some data to work off of that would have made you much more credible.


Any other commentary, about the future of Dwarven Forge. is nonsense coming from a fanboy who suffers from diarrhea of the keyboard. Without access to a principal, without access to the financials and either an understanding of the financials of competitors, or similar interests selling similar product any commentary is at best uninformed and at worst hiding an agenda attempting to drive potential customers away from the product.


Cute there MZ, with the "diarrhea of the keyboard." comment
Trying to demean the reality that I am much more than a fanboy, but have actually worked in the industry and who paid attention to the numbers around me.
In all the vocabulary you have thrown liberally around here you have forgotten the term "trends of a speciality market" which gaming is one of those said markets.
You are right that gaming is paid for typically from discretionary funds.
I concede the point if you include theft and the misuse of funds needed for physical needs.

What you have forgotten here in your haste to try to discredit my experience and knowledge is that you have no direct knowledge beyond the "fanboy" stage yourself.
You with your high-faluting ways and language are doing the very thing you accuse me of - of being uninformed at best and driving potential customers away at worse.
That is swift MZ; you create a tarbaby and then place all four of your own limbs in it.
Br'ar Rabbit would be a hoopin' 'n' a hollerin' at you bucko.


If all folks just want to game, then why do they ask questions on the public forum about business items and release dates? Should not those be PMs or e-Mails to admin if discussion of them and even honest disagreement is not part of the forum mix.


I have never posted any question or contributed to any conversation regarding the business of Dwarven Forge. I have been concerned that Dwarven Forge will not remain viable from the perspective of a customer looking to purchase product, but I don't believe that anyone on this board, or perhaps even in the DF board room, would be qualified to address those issues.

I actually did post the following: http://dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforums/v ... .php?t=566

Sounds like a guilty conscience here MZ.
Where did I say you had posted anything of the sort?
You once again show the flaws in your argument with placement of subject way beyond what I wrote.
Honestly MZ, you are really reaching here.


I have emailed Dwarven Forge and asked them about the Beta release and the reply:

We are unsure as of this moment. We would like to come out with a Beta Set, but we won’t know for a month or so.

We will send out an email when we know. Thanks.


No one on this board, myself included and foremost, is qualified to intellegently contribute to a conversation concerning the business interests of Dwarven Forge. However, as per my earlier comments, when have online boards been the refuge of anything intellegent?

Again MZ, you ignore actual experience in the industry to the detriment of your argument.
Trends over the time I have been in the industry and then a "fanboy" before that are recognizable if you bother to pay attention and talk to the people involved and/or who are also paying attention.


Please focus this board, this thread, and ALL threads on either Dwarven Forge terrain, why you like it, why you think it is sucky, why you bought it, why you haven't, why you like the the Oakland Raiders (which from my perspective is an unsuportable position), or anything.

Put for the love of god, please do not continue to manufacture rhetoric attempting to secure in one's own mind a subscription to the intellegentsia if the conversation is regarding the solvency, or profitability of the Dwarven Forge business model. They sent you an account cancelled notice awhile ago...and the drivel hurts my brain.


Might I suggest you ignore the rest of us then if it hurts you MZ.
We can carry on an intelligent discussion of what we see as the possiblities with their causalities quite well in your absence.
You are in no way the end-all be-all of business knowledge on this board.
You do realize MZ that your pride has really made you into the jester of this issue.
Are you ready for your fall?

Ghenghis Ska
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Post by Ghenghis Ska » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:16 pm




Now who can tell me how to put together some set-ups for my new swag: 4 Starters, 4 Passage, and 2 Alpha.

What are most folks playing? SW minis, Space Hulk, Mechwarrior, SW RPG, Mechwarrior?


I am mainly playing SWd20RPG, and that is what the DF was bought for, i had orignally toyed with using it for the SWminis but two things killed that idea for me, lack of portabilty, it is really hard to lug it around to the FLGS, and second the Minis game was kind of a no starter back in August 2004 when it first came out. We finally got the first game of it last weekend that consisted of people NOT in my RPG, which was Very fun, i hope to get the game going monthly now, but most likely won't be using DF for it, becasue i am leaving all of it at the guys house where we play the RPG. The maps that come with the minis are very nice and i think many people just use those for it. and i have some more portable Terrain that i might bring to the minis.
I'd like to show case the DF stuff, and after i take some pictures tommorrow night (camera allready in my RPG bag) i have a set up with 2 passages, 1 alpha, and 2-3 starter. (not sure). That the PCS just entered last week and its still up

Look for the Czerka Corprate Headquarters thread on Wedensday night or Thursday in the Cool pics thread. (I'll most likely put them on my Webapage too, most likely more here than there, but will put up a link to here.)

MightyZug
Goblin
Goblin
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:59 am

Sci-Fi Terrain

Post by MightyZug » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:04 pm


In his case he tries to lay claim to financial knowledge that contradicts what I have said when his experience is no where in this specialty, but because he is offended from other items, he has to take his club to me and prove somehow that his knowledge beats mine into the earth despite possessing no in-area expertise...without the pertinent information, knowledge and experience to actually be correct?
If MZ wanted to explain to us all how off base we are with our concerns about DF's future, I would welcome the posting.
I just hope that he could do so with honest credentia, actual data


Let me put this to bed. I've worked in finance and securities for the better part of my professional life. I've held a securities license. My educational background is economics, which I've studied at Harvard and now Wisconsin. I'd like to think I know a thing or two about business, finance, and how to read a corporate financial statement, interpret business metrics and talk intellegently about the valuing the future earnings of a business (especially if it makes widgets in a perfectly competitive market :rolleyes: ). There are more mutual funds than securities. This should remind anyone in the game that the principal competitive advantage in finance is the ability to accumulate good data and evaluate business metrics. Telling a good company from a bad company is the game. While I was in the game I played it well, I was a contrarian and all of my recommendations were solid plays. I demanded absolutely strong metrics to back up any projections, and I never pushed a play because it had momentum even when there was money to be made. I like the Value approach to understanding a business, and I know enough to know when someone doesn't know anything, and I also know where I don't know anything (which is actually a hell of a lot of places hence the return to University).

Without access to the financials I couldn't even begin to comment on the future, profitablity, or viability of Dwarven Forge. Even commenting could potentially create problems on my U-4, as this is reasonably a public forum. Anyone prosletizing about the solvency of this gaming concern who:

Was a cash register jockey for a game store that went under
Was a paintbrush for a game company that went under
Was a phone rep for a game company that doesn't feel they were recognized for the genius they know themselves to be is not qualified to comment on the issue. That I do know.

Most gaming companies are not the ideal investment for capital if profit maximization is your standard. However, if money and this false god does not guide your life, you are passionate about an industry, and you have a viable product, and you have a means of production secured at costs below your long term marginal revenue curve, then hey go for it.

Dwarven Forge is not a homogenous product competing with similar competitors. They are selling, regarding their terrain, a product for which there is not a readily available competitive alternative. They are selling a product in a market which is supported by discretionary income. This is also a product in a growth industry, yet with a very real ceiling upon future earnings growth. Dwarven Forge could hope to saturate the gaming market for terrain, but ultimately Dwarven Forge and future earnings are going to be subject to the size of the gaming market, and their market share therein.

Any other commentary, about the future of Dwarven Forge. is nonsense coming from a fanboy who suffers from diarrhea of the keyboard. Without access to a principal, without access to the financials and either an understanding of the financials of competitors, or similar interests selling similar product any commentary is at best uninformed and at worst hiding an agenda attempting to drive potential customers away from the product.


If all folks just want to game, then why do they ask questions on the public forum about business items and release dates? Should not those be PMs or e-Mails to admin if discussion of them and even honest disagreement is not part of the forum mix.


I have never posted any question or contributed to any conversation regarding the business of Dwarven Forge. I have been concerned that Dwarven Forge will not remain viable from the perspective of a customer looking to purchase product, but I don't believe that anyone on this board, or perhaps even in the DF board room, would be qualified to address those issues.

I actually did post the following: http://dwarvenforge.com/dwarvenforums/v ... .php?t=566

I have emailed Dwarven Forge and asked them about the Beta release and the reply:


We are unsure as of this moment. We would like to come out with a Beta Set, but we won’t know for a month or so.

We will send out an email when we know. Thanks.


No one on this board, myself included and foremost, is qualified to intellegently contribute to a conversation concerning the business interests of Dwarven Forge. However, as per my earlier comments, when have online boards been the refuge of anything intellegent?

Please focus this board, this thread, and ALL threads on either Dwarven Forge terrain, why you like it, why you think it is sucky, why you bought it, why you haven't, why you like the the Oakland Raiders (which from my perspective is an unsuportable position), or anything.

Put for the love of god, please do not continue to manufacture rhetoric attempting to secure in one's own mind a subscription to the intellegentsia if the conversation is regarding the solvency, or profitability of the Dwarven Forge business model. They sent you an account cancelled notice awhile ago...and the drivel hurts my brain.

Now who can tell me how to put together some set-ups for my new swag: 4 Starters, 4 Passage, and 2 Alpha.

What are most folks playing? SW minis, Space Hulk, Mechwarrior, SW RPG, Mechwarrior?

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