Tariffs

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kodiakbear
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Re: Tariffs

Post by kodiakbear » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:59 pm

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:44 am
ultimately wages will even out to a point where we will find much more distributed manufacturing - though still focussed in the far east unless China gets really greedy.
Don't forget environmental laws, if one country requires clean air and water they will often cost more to manufacture in that one where the sky, the rivers and the ocean are dumping grounds. I maybe wrong but I think China is starting to get tired of their air looking worse than large U.S. cities did in the seventies.

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Re: Tariffs

Post by Rabbit Burner » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:44 am

dice4hire wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:06 pm
Yes, the inequalities are a huge problem, but as the poorer countries develop things even out. China is nowhere as cheap as it used to be. Still is cheap though, and i doubt many here would like to pay produced in America prices for this stuff. I know I would not.
Agree with this - ultimately wages will even out to a point where we will find much more distributed manufacturing - though still focussed in the far east unless China gets really greedy.

But people tend to go for value rather than ethics, unless the cost difference is small enough, most will buy from the cheapest source for similar quality.

However this is started food market bucking this trend, where consumers are prepared to pay more for ethically sourced or healthier produce, not the best comparison but shows willing on the consumer to look beyond the price.

We would love to see DF use local (US) manufacturer but not where it results in a significant cost increase - which has a bigger impact for us overseas customers.

But if it was the difference between more expensive or none - then we would vote for more expensive, within reason ;)
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Re: Tariffs

Post by dice4hire » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:06 pm

Yes, the inequalities are a huge problem, but as the poorer countries develop things even out. China is nowhere as cheap as it used to be. Still is cheap though, and i doubt many here would like to pay produced in America prices for this stuff. I know I would not.
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Re: Tariffs

Post by kitenerd » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:42 pm

We will never be able to fully equalize all things across all countries - labor rates will vary, cost of living will vary, taxes (and social benefits) will vary. That being said we need to agree on a certain minimum standard for worker rights, environmental standards and worker safety standards. These things will SOMEWHAT level the playing field.

I think many people would "buy American" (or Italian) if the difference were 20-30%. In the world we live in that difference is more like 300%. We (i am speaking specifically for Americans here) are to addicted to consumption and being able to buy every single thing we want the instant we want it (for less than it costs to make...) to pay that kind of a premium. Could we get free shipping on that? What do you mean 4 days... i NEED it this weekend!!!
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Re: Tariffs

Post by marcoreds » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:12 am

kodiakbear wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:19 am
IMO

We the consumer are to blame. In the seventies they said buy union made and we said no thank you we want it cheaper. In the eighties they said buy made in the USA and we said no thank you we want it cheaper. Sure a couple of times we demanded that factories not use child labor but for the most part we the consumer really did not care if the worker who made our clothes/stuff was closer to a slave that what we in the USA would think of a correctly paid worker. Basically we the first world consumer suck.

WOW am I feisty tonight. I wonder how many soap boxes was.

IMO

;)
Not saying that tariffs are the solution.

But I fully agree with this post.

An internationally open market, with very different rules across, can’t but lead to the death of production in the countries in which rules are more “lenient”.

I live in Italy. The cost of manwork here is ridiculously higher than most places elsewhere.
Because here it includes a wealth of worker benefits (health care, retirement salary, injury compensation, holidays, pregnancy reimbursements, low maximum working hours, etc.) that just do not exist everywhere else. And someone has to pay for those.

The result?
Firms are relocating their factories to other countries, since there work cost is much lower, and those same workers that were lucky to have all those benefits end up fired and without a job.

So: either we accept that all these benefits are too expensive and can’t be supported, or we introduce some kind of limit to imported goods, so that this enormous difference in production cost gets artificially evened out.

The cost of increasing taxes on wares from lower-rights countries falls on customers? Of course it does.
But you can’t both want to buy low cost wares (produced in countries where workers have no rights) and expect to have yourself a decent job with all of your rights dutifully fulfilled (and expect the wares you produced to be bought by someone who magically desires to buy the more expensive things you produce just so that you keep your good job).

Just to give an idea of what I mean: i have an independent job, work in sales. I pay in direct taxes more than 75% of the gross total I gain (not joking or exaggerating).For employed people is not that bad, but still taxes are very high. How can this compete with the Chinese production market?

I mean, we have Sicily, producer of superb oranges. Oranges that come from across the world, transportation included, are far cheaper than our Sicily ones, because of the cost of the work of people gathering them from plants.
How can this be a sustainable model that works for the future???

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Re: Tariffs

Post by AstroCat » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:49 pm

Wow!! Great news! 😃

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Re: Tariffs

Post by AnimeSensei » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:35 pm

https://io9.gizmodo.com/trump-suspends- ... 1836019816

TL;DR

"The Trump administration has halted its plans to impose additional tariffs on $300 billion “List 4" goods, which would have included a 25 percent tariff on select tabletop games and accessories, toys, and video game consoles. "
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Re: Tariffs

Post by kitenerd » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:41 am

dice4hire wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:13 am
I think we all know a button to get kodiakbear riled up now. Lord knows, I have my share of those topic buttons and I really do try not to expound on them every time I see an opportunity. I do enough already.
but if you don't post your opinions where will i steal mine from ???
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Re: Tariffs

Post by dice4hire » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:13 am

I think we all know a button to get kodiakbear riled up now. Lord knows, I have my share of those topic buttons and I really do try not to expound on them every time I see an opportunity. I do enough already.
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kodiakbear
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Re: Tariffs

Post by kodiakbear » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:19 am

IMO

We the consumer are to blame. In the seventies they said buy union made and we said no thank you we want it cheaper. In the eighties they said buy made in the USA and we said no thank you we want it cheaper. Sure a couple of times we demanded that factories not use child labor but for the most part we the consumer really did not care if the worker who made our clothes/stuff was closer to a slave that what we in the USA would think of a correctly paid worker. Basically we the first world consumer suck.

WOW am I feisty tonight. I wonder how many soap boxes was.

IMO

;)

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