Secret Weapon - Mines

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kodiakbear
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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by kodiakbear » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:35 pm

[quote="Oldent]
Another factor
A huge number of people only purchase prepainted sets.
[/quote]

Very true

I totally forgot about that when I was thinking as to why the KS was not bigger. :oops:

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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by ForestZ » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:06 pm

Those bridges are a ridiculous deal at 8 bucks a set. The bones Stalagmites set is also a ridiculous deal. Sort of countered by how expensive the Track Walls pack is, but overall, I'm looking forward to supplementing my DF/HA builds with this stuff.

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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by Oldent » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:00 pm

Kryzsko wrote:Ya, I think the biggest reason this was not a huge hit was because mines appeal to an even smaller niche audience. I do agree that something like monster lairs would have been more popular. I did get one set myself and some mine tracks. If they unlock the "Stackers" in the pledge manager I will definitely get some of those. I think you are seeing the reason that most niche sets would be more profitable in resin. I like the PVC better but you have to do a large run (from what I have heard) to make it work, and these more specific and less used environments are going to struggle to reach a larger audience. I think this should be a lessen for DF (although there stuff is better) not to go to niche. Sure, us hard core fans would buy them but that is about it.
I agree with you about niche sets if you define niche as low volume. I think themed sets would be a better way to think of it. So will a theme be popular enough for high volume?
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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by Oldent » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:47 am

kodiakbear wrote
"In addition to the separate walls and floors SW did many of the walls in half height which was praised by many at Reaper since they work with oversized and over hanging minis so well and reduces mini view obstruction issues some have with standard height walls. (and IMO was the second reason they could offer a core set for $75)"

I have resisted the short walls in my builds. I have been trying to make some tiles for Massive Darkness. I have begun to make more short walls.

Image

You can see how the 1/2 walls can be useful with large models. The 1" by 4" tiles are also very important with the wall on center sets. So far I have made at least one set for every Hirst Art and 4 bot floor mold I have.
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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by Kryzsko » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:37 am

Ya, I think the biggest reason this was not a huge hit was because mines appeal to an even smaller niche audience. I do agree that something like monster lairs would have been more popular. I did get one set myself and some mine tracks. If they unlock the "Stackers" in the pledge manager I will definitely get some of those. I think you are seeing the reason that most niche sets would be more profitable in resin. I like the PVC better but you have to do a large run (from what I have heard) to make it work, and these more specific and less used environments are going to struggle to reach a larger audience. I think this should be a lessen for DF (although there stuff is better) not to go to niche. Sure, us hard core fans would buy them but that is about it.

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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by Oldent » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:30 am

AnimeSensei wrote:I think it was the poor paint scheme and the prototypes that didn't line up.

I'm a backer but the presentation just wasn't there to get me pumped. DF is still king at that.
I want to point out that DF prototype parts don't fit any better. However,DF has a proven track record. Nate Taylor's presentations are a hard act to follow.

Another factor
A huge number of people only purchase prepainted sets.

Monster lairs
I purchased 4 track sets but only one each monster lair. The elevations set and bridge sets had a lot of potential and would have generated more interest if they had been dramatically illustrated early on.

Image

This photo has me pumped

Image

Most people realize by now I like to go vertical. I have been gradually adding more short walls.

Image

I really like the idea of the spider lair. I would probably buy several. I am going to add more funds latter. I will get two more bridge sets and two more track walls. I will get at least four elevation sets when they are available.
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AnimeSensei
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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by AnimeSensei » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:59 am

I think it was the poor paint scheme and the prototypes that didn't line up.

I'm a backer but the presentation just wasn't there to get me pumped. DF is still king at that.
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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by ced1106 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:00 am

I agree. I think the KS would have done better if it focused on "Monster Lairs" than "Mines". I only found one miniature subforum dedicated to the Old West, and TMP doesn't have anything remotely close to this genre. Shadows of Brimstone is the most popular Old West boardgame, but SWM and Reaper didn't show SoB builds. The walls, btw, make excellent terrain for miniature wargames, but pictures of these weren't shown, either.

I think, nowadays, any new game tile manufacturer may want to also show itself as an "addition" to a gamer's existing set of game tiles (and some casters, such as Johnny Lauck, Stone Skull, and Foundations 3 did), rather than a "competitor". The first promotional picture, imo, implies the game tiles are a self-contained system, so suggests "competitor". If the picture instead showed individual pieces (the monster lairs), it would be seen as an accessory or "addition". I read criticisms of the light sand paint scheme, and I think the paint scheme further suggests "Mines". They had a dark rock paint scheme, and, imo, that suggests "Monsters", particularly if you added the "Monster Lairs" -- not to mention the 1/2 off Bones monster sets!

I'm sorta scratching my head, though, that since you can't get a good discount on game tiles online (like you can boardgames), why gamers don't pledge for whatever game tiles are on KS (assuming they're from an established company). Obvious answers are that many gamers want a single system (I wouldn't mind DF selling more of its basic game tile sets at their KS prices!), gamers who buy tiles have a limit of how many sets they will buy (they only have so much storage space!), gamers who buy tiles REALLY buy tiles (you need at least two sets for a decent encounter), and gamers who REALLY buy tiles REALLY buy tiles (can afford to buy hundreds of dollars of game tiles at a time).

Still, while expectations were higher, the KS core set ended with a good amount of pieces, similar to DF1 KS, although, since walls and floors are separate pieces, you need roughly twice as many Tablescape pieces as DF. I noticed that free core pieces were no longer being added, so any min/max'ing bargain hunters (me!) didn't benefit from more SG's (namely add-ons) being unlocked. Additionally, Reaper paint sets and Bones miniatures were discounted about 1/2 off. Maybe if previews of additional pieces weren't shown, backers wouldn't know any better and would be satisfied. But, I think showing the previews was still a good idea -- it creates demand for future product, which was suggested will show up sometime in resin and/or plastic!

EDIT: And in September... :P https://www.facebook.com/ModularUndergr ... 3489671233

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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by kodiakbear » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:12 am

I was surprised this KS did not go higher both in backers and in total dollars since it is being done by Secret Weapon and Reaper.
1,463 backers and $175,223

Secret Weapons 1st Tablescape Tiles KS had 1,395 backers and $311,488
Bones 1 KS had 17,744 backers and $3,429,235
Bones 2 KS had 14,964 backers and $3,169,610
Bones 3 KS had 13,465 backers and $2,730,365
Reapers CAV KS had 1,510 backers and $179,437

Since fantasy miniatures are more widely used than terrain I would never have expected this KS to have seen backers numbers any where near the numbers in the bones KSs but I was expecting it would beat Secret Weapons 1st KS and Reapers CAV KS by far.

Like DF did for the sewer tiles in KS3, SW did the walls and floors as separate pieces and that was highly praised in comments at the Reaper forum and on the KS (and IMO was the number one reason they could offer a core set for $75)

In addition to the separate walls and floors SW did many of the walls in half height which was praised by many at Reaper since they work with oversized and over hanging minis so well and reduces mini view obstruction issues some have with standard height walls. (and IMO was the second reason they could offer a core set for $75)

While there were minor issues listed with a few different aspects of these mining tiles here on this forum I did not see any of them mentioned on the KS own comments or at reapers forum (granted I did not read every comment but the KS and reapers forum seamed to be very positive and happy with them)

So I wonder why this KS did not see greater support.

It is possible that timing was the biggest, summer may not be the best time to sell terrain.
Another is that customers who really do not like walls for their gaming terrain were already shown a KS by Reaper in 2015 when Frontline Games had a KS with 404 backers for thin gaming tiles.
Another may be a false number we are seeing, while the backer number of 1,463 is pretty concrete the total of $175,223 maybe way lower than true. Reaper extends their Pledge Manager out so far that many may have backer for a base $75 and will add much more later perhaps many months later.
Perhaps the few minor issues listed with a few different aspects of these mining tiles here on this forum were felt by more than a few others out there on the internet.

But the one possibility that worries me the most is that mines are just to niche of a terrain, and the reason it worries me is if mines are to niche then perhaps so are a lot of other terrain environments. I want to see Dwarven Forge continue to make terrain in Dwarvenite and if a PVC terrain KS that was getting pushed by Reaper could not get greater support that makes me wonder what the future holds.

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kodiakbear
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Re: Secret Weapon - Mines

Post by kodiakbear » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:52 am

Secret Weapon Creator about 4 hours ago

We have discussed the possibility of unlocking additional sets using Pledge Manager funds, and we will do so but only if it does NOT impact fulfillment in any way. For instance, if it takes 4+ months to unlock the Stacker Set, we may be too late to get the molds made in time to ship in our original window. We will look at all options, prior to our fulfillment window closing, and keep everyone updated as we go.

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