Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

crazy_cat
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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by crazy_cat » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:41 pm

I'm in Cambridge - so a collection option would be great for me if it could be arranged via the Kickstarter. But, is this actually an option?

I'm in for three sets - would like to order more, and add-ons, but the shipping is killer. If there is a deal to be done, with the KS deal on sets and extras but later arrival and collection (due to shipping as part of a container for DF Europe) and thus a lower combined handling and tax charge than the transatlantic shipping then this sounds great to me.

Aiddar
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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by Aiddar » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:56 am

Hi there.

Thanks for looking at this. As others have menbtioned, anything that can be shaved off is good for me, and MUCH appreciated.

In terms of pickup, Royston is possible (I live in Oxford, so about 90 mins or so away). *grins* - Cursed LG alignments... be CG like me! If there was a way to ship it to you, and then pick up, saving some money would be cool, but I understand completely abiut playing by the rules. Annoying HMRC is not generally considered a "Good Thing To Do" :-)

As mentioned - anything that covers 3 sets + all 4 addons, and/or a 5-set purchase solution (though I like the 2*3 set option as well!) is greatly appreciated. Thanks for looking at this - would be a lot easier to simply say "thems the rules" and leave us to it. Nice to know that people are looking at options.

Cheers

Aiddar

Prime
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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by Prime » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:36 am

Anything you can shave off would be great. I'm also awaiting your decision, would be good to know good news or bad when Wed comes around. I'm currently in for 3 but would go in for 5 if it could be improved, maybe even 2 x 3 sets (which I've just noticed is same p&p as 5?)

It looks like both sides of the pond are working on it seriously so even if it comes to nothing, thanks for at least trying.

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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by Thod » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:57 pm

Endevor

Yes - taxes and processing fees would be where the saving come from. Unfortunately a lot of people won't understand that. That's why the 5 set (or another option that gets closer to 30 kg but not above) seems the best solution as you save taxes plus on shipping.

Aiddar

I'm in Deal, close to Dover. I don't have a shop but try to have most sets in my house and always welcome players and customers. The warehouse is in Royston, close to Cambridge. It's run by Otherworld Miniatures. In both cases you would need to check ahead of time as we don't have shop opening times.
For the Kickstarter it's unlikely that you could save that way. I once even contemplated that I could ship everything from here that would ship cheaper - and customers could get a voucher for the saving. No - I didn't even suggest this to Jeff. While it seems a win-win it would be an issue with KS guidelines.
Yes - unfortunately you have here a LG aligned distributor. I try to come up with ideas to save customers on shipping - but it has to fit into the guidelines and tax laws. So anything like the above likely wont work.
But yes - maybe a free piece for visiting - it's just for advertisement and unrelated to any KS should anyone pick up directly??

Aiddar
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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by Aiddar » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:01 pm

Hi there.
Welcome back - to repeat an earlier comment, hope you had a good holiday!

Thanks for looking at this - it looks like anyway we cut it, we're going to get hurt in shipping. Oh well.

That said...

1) If there is any saving at all, that would be really really good for me, and I would be interested. At the moment, I am in for 3 sets, and am looking at 4 addons (1 of each). As such, any saving on that would be really appreciated

2) This may not be an option at all, but do you have a store in the UK? If yes, would there be any saving by having it delivered to you and then driving over and picking it up? I suspect not, but thought it might be worth a punt.

Thanks again - any bright ideas really appreciated.

Aiddar

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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by Endevor » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:30 pm

Even if your offer is in the same price range i will buy it from you if i can avoid taxes, i just hope we will not be the last served.

Just let us know what the decision will be.

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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by jackattack » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:23 pm

Or they just let it fall on the buyer.

I tried to send a gift to a friend in Canada as a surprise, only to get an angry call demanding to know why I'd obligated them to pay as much as the gift cost me to get it out of customs.

I don't send gifts across borders any more.
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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by Thod » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:26 pm

And yes - I do wonder how some other KS are doing it with European direct shipments. Or are they naive and possibly get hit by a pretty ugly tax bill.

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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by Thod » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:23 pm

Now to the Kickstarter. How would the 5 set option work tax wise if send out directly?

The pledge is $260. The customs value should be $215 ($260 - $45 US free shipping).

5% duty and 20% VAT makes it $53.75. But wait - this is what I pay to HMRC. Add on this the Kickstarter fee and a loss when you transfer the dollar to pound and you add another 10% to cover that. So we talk $60 gone and this would have to be a pick-up price. Now add handling and shipping.

Unfortunately direct is even worse ...

You pay $260 + $200 shipping. Duty might not be payable? I could check out where the margin is - and it differed from country to country. That leaves 20% VAT for UK (19-25% depending on country you life).

In the UK Parcelforce tends to add it on goods AND shipping. So this would be anywhere between $43 to $104. And an additional £13.50 handling fee - on each box - and I'm not sure how many boxe this might be.

Yes - it's ugly, But the whole system is build up to prevent any avoidance of these taxes. I'm not Amazon which would allow me to move to Luxembourg - they only ask 15% - and the items are also to big and costly to send them below the limits of £18 like CD shippers on the Isle of Jersey. Did you ever wonder why it was shipped from there - and you got 5 boxes of CDs when it could have been done in a single one?

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Re:Game Tiles - Kick Starter and Shipping to Europe

Post by Thod » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:55 am

I'm trying to shed some light on the percularities of the tax system and how it works.

US customers are lucky - there is no duty payable for the pieces and no sales tax for online sales. Yes - you might have to pay sales tax when you buy at a convention ...

Now let's take import and resale here in Europe.

Assume I buy (factory) for £7000 and sell it on for £12000. This are fictions numbers just for the math. Sounds great - £5000 for me - or maybe not.

I will have to pay approx £350 duty (it's just below 5%). I then pay £1400 for VAT.

Now there are two possibilities. I'm not VAT registered - so the duty and VAT are gone but I take in the whole difference.

If I'm VAT registered - and Thod's Bazaar is VAT registered - then I get the £1400 back. Great? Wait - no. Because now when I sell everything for £10000 I have to add £2000 VAT and pay to HMRC at the end of each quarter. So from the £5000 difference £350 would be duty, £2000 VAT - and this assumes a pretty high margin. So all in all it doesn't make a difference - you pay VAT on the retail price.

There is no avoidance possible - unless you go to questionable mispricing or other mislabeling which could get you into legal troubles.

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