KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by AnimeSensei » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:34 pm

dice4hire wrote:I do know I hope KSIV does not have tons of accessories or minis. Getting miniatures and accessories is really easy elsewhere, but getting dwarvenite terrain elsewhere is impossible.
I disagree; I would rather have dwarvenite accessories than resin or especially metal due to fragility and paint durability.
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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by lostpict » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:50 pm

I would like a matching crennellated short wall to go between those stone half posts. We have played two games with the battlements due to the snow and they are too easy to knock off. I would prefer any easy way to make battlements on my 4x4 stone roofs.

I would also love alley T-intersections and an alley dead-end.

Another nice transition piece would be curbed sidewalks.

Last, I would like a curbed canal, creek, stream, river, etc., to make a proper surface water feature (the cavern rivers are great for underground) and once we have those - sluice gates, mill dams, lo ks, bridges, and draw bridges beckon.
Last edited by lostpict on Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by dice4hire » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:39 pm

I do know I hope KSIV does not have tons of accessories or minis. Getting miniatures and accessories is really easy elsewhere, but getting dwarvenite terrain elsewhere is impossible.
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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by Law » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:12 pm

Having spent some time orienting myself with this, I think I have better suggestions now for what I'd like to see in the next KS that would work with CBS.

1) Stone half-posts and stone railings. We have so many wood half posts, but I want to be able to make large stone balconies out of stone floors. A large mansion would look so cool with one whole section just a big stone floor with a railing (or multiple railings).

2) While we're asking for stone versions of things, how about stone stairs? I realize we already have them, but I'd like something a bit more formal and something easier to work with in this context. The multi-node stairs from KS1 work really well in dungeons, where you have tons of room to put a bunch of pieces together to make stairs. But the CBS stairs are such a convenient one-piece to drop into place down a stair hole in a floor. Using the old ones in the new setting is a good workaround, but I'd like an update.

3) A T-intersection for alleys. Right now alleys can go straight, turn, and open up onto streets, but there's no way to do proper intersections with alleys. A four-way would be nice, too, but a T-intersection would be more useful.

4) I'd love to see more miniatures -- promo shots for KSIII showed more than what we got, I believe, and I seem to recall Stefan or someone mentioning that there were some sculpts done that were not released because the amount raised never climbed high enough. I think some of those appeared in the grab bags. I'd love to see more minis, I'm really happy with what we saw. How about, since this is a castle KS, some royalty? King and queen, prince and princess, jester and high priest, etc. Would definitely work in the context of the city.

5) How about more furniture? In the prior KS we got Dwarvenite versions of the DF tables and chairs, and now we've gotten the tavern. How about stuff some of us have been requesting for YEARS? Like a grand throne? (Again - castle!) Or torture devices?

6) I'd love a royal carriage. There's a theme here, you'll notice. But, you know, we have these streets and so far the only thing on them (besides marauding ratmen) is the cart. How about something more formal? A big boulevard leading up to the castle should really have a royal retinue to drive down it. The washer women and beggars and so on can watch it go by.

7) New trapdoor styles. I'm having a blast swapping the pieces out - I use the iron trapdoor from the Bridge of Valor as a "manhole cover" in one of the sewer grate streets, and the sewer grate from that street I put in a stone floor as a drain for a barn. I'd like to see more variations on the trap doors, kinda like the variations we get in doors.

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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by Sorn » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:54 pm

Smogma wrote:Concerning Wicked Cavern Pieces, there were some great ideas proposed by users on the forum that really help to once again break up the repetitive look you get from using the 2x2 tiles:

2"x4" Cavern Walls to give the cave pieces a more organic look
Proposed by Blue Prophet in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5368
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Edge Dressing

Love this idea! I
Proposed by William in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1494
Image
Image
Image

Basalt Column Cavern Dressing
Proposed by William in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5996
Image
Image

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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by Law » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:07 pm

Yeah, the resin stuff was never a PERFECT fit. My first set of Wicked Additions, the long walls were too long and were basically useless. But I didn't think much about it, I just tended not to use them. Might have bugged me more if they had been pieces I really wanted to use, like the mermaid fountain, but as it was, meh. (Granted, had they worked, I might have found them useful)

The other thing is, I'm fairly certain the resin prices are misleading. I did a little price compare myself when I finally got around to ordering KS2 caverns. The original cavern set was $120 back in the day -- and to get approximately the same coverage with KS2 caverns it was a lot more. But it's clear that the prices for resin have gone up a lot since 2000, and not only has DF been forced to raise prices occasionally over the years, I also think it's clear it was becoming more of a hassle for them.

Even more recent sets, like the woodland set or catacombs, I think they were priced in a way that was difficult to maintain. If DF were to stay dedicated to resin the way it used to, I'd think we'd see prices FAR above what we were used to seeing.

tl;dr -- the price of Dwarvenite may not be cheaper than resin, but it's cheaper than resin would be if DF went back to an all-resin model.


It's a shame for me, because I really do prefer the resin. The tradeoff of durability is ALMOST enough to compensate, but to be honest, I'd still rather have everything in resin. Still, KS3 is some of the most exciting stuff DF has ever released, so at the end of the day, to borrow a phrase, the medium isn't the message.

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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by AnimeSensei » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:54 am

Blue Prophet wrote:First, reprinting castle wall packs (I want unpainted) would be great. Unless there is an amazing alternate that is better in KS4.

It also would be amazing if it was possible to remold the Caverns 45 degree piece to be closer in dimension to the Dungeon Tile one. Its fit is so bad compared to the Dungeon Tiles 45. I also wish both of those pieces were able to be bought in larger quantities or not only be tied to narrow passages. They could possibly be included in some "advanced builder" package with similar more modular pieces for both Dungeon Tiles and Caverns sets.

I know that it is a huge expense to make new metal molds for Dwarvenite. But I have been tracking some prices of DF resin vs. dwarvenite. Even though the Drungeon Tiles, especially the original basic ones, are a good value, many other Dwarvenite pieces are not that different in pricing to painted resin sets. Sure Dwarvenite is very durable... but there are warping and some fit issues. The CBS is actually more expensive than many resin sets for the same single level footprint (at the regular retail prices now). One example is the Grand Staircase pack that is about $1.25 per piece unpainted and $1.94 per for painted compared to the Realm of Ancients Treasure set at $1.77 per piece (some very small) or Woodlands Accessories at $2.16 per piece. That is why I get unpainted, but painting is turning out to take WAY more time than I expected. For what is now a more premium price, I'd like to see some of the major fit or chronic warping issues be addressed. Maybe it can be a tiny stretch goal in the next KS.... fund a new mold for X previous problem piece. Maybe there can be polls on which might be most desired.

As someone who came to DF through the first KS. I have only begun painting the KS 1 tiles and using them in a game. But I also just got the Catacombs as my first resin set. I have to admit that each time I order Dwarvenite, in the back of my head I am concerned about whether the pieces will be warped (especially with new designs in an new KSer). When I am thinking of ordering resin pieces, the consistency of fit or shape does not enter my mind (aside from known issues like the Woodland set, which would now cost more than retail). From looking at pictures of previous sets through today, I can see improvements in sculpts and designs for certain things. But as new Dwarvenite items are increasingly having a premium price, I expect a correspondingly more premium product (which includes correcting flaws that happened along the way with poor sizing or warping). From what I hear it sounds like the warping is on average less with the CBS than earlier stuff. I think there is a reason that the very useful 2x6 Dungeon floor packs are still in high stock - people are put off by the warping issues.
The resin pieces come from flexible molds, as such they don't fit perfectly either. Many of my original room and passage sets have issues with the corner pieces where I have gaps in my floor. I find that as a whole, dwarvenite fits better than resin, even though it has its issues.
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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by Blue Prophet » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:44 am

First, reprinting castle wall packs (I want unpainted) would be great. Unless there is an amazing alternate that is better in KS4.

It also would be amazing if it was possible to remold the Caverns 45 degree piece to be closer in dimension to the Dungeon Tile one. Its fit is so bad compared to the Dungeon Tiles 45. I also wish both of those pieces were able to be bought in larger quantities or not only be tied to narrow passages. They could possibly be included in some "advanced builder" package with similar more modular pieces for both Dungeon Tiles and Caverns sets.

I know that it is a huge expense to make new metal molds for Dwarvenite. But I have been tracking some prices of DF resin vs. dwarvenite. Even though the Drungeon Tiles, especially the original basic ones, are a good value, many other Dwarvenite pieces are not that different in pricing to painted resin sets. Sure Dwarvenite is very durable... but there are warping and some fit issues. The CBS is actually more expensive than many resin sets for the same single level footprint (at the regular retail prices now). One example is the Grand Staircase pack that is about $1.25 per piece unpainted and $1.94 per for painted compared to the Realm of Ancients Treasure set at $1.77 per piece (some very small) or Woodlands Accessories at $2.16 per piece. That is why I get unpainted, but painting is turning out to take WAY more time than I expected. For what is now a more premium price, I'd like to see some of the major fit or chronic warping issues be addressed. Maybe it can be a tiny stretch goal in the next KS.... fund a new mold for X previous problem piece. Maybe there can be polls on which might be most desired.

As someone who came to DF through the first KS. I have only begun painting the KS 1 tiles and using them in a game. But I also just got the Catacombs as my first resin set. I have to admit that each time I order Dwarvenite, in the back of my head I am concerned about whether the pieces will be warped (especially with new designs in an new KSer). When I am thinking of ordering resin pieces, the consistency of fit or shape does not enter my mind (aside from known issues like the Woodland set, which would now cost more than retail). From looking at pictures of previous sets through today, I can see improvements in sculpts and designs for certain things. But as new Dwarvenite items are increasingly having a premium price, I expect a correspondingly more premium product (which includes correcting flaws that happened along the way with poor sizing or warping). From what I hear it sounds like the warping is on average less with the CBS than earlier stuff. I think there is a reason that the very useful 2x6 Dungeon floor packs are still in high stock - people are put off by the warping issues.

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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by LordDust » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:50 pm

Audles wrote:I'd love a "Wicked Realism" Dungeon Dressing pack. Dwarvenite Toilets, buckets, bed pans, rushes, cook pots full of porridge, scrolls, etc. Having stuff that real people use in their day-to-day would be a lot of fun.
If you can find any anywhere the Tavern Dungeon Decor KS had a number of day to day kind of things in it. All in all a very nice set. I can't wait for him to do the next one, I'm hoping to see it this year. They're pretty contained and very affordable. It compliments DF very well. He is planning another decor KS and a monsters KS.

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Re: KS4 - Non-Castle add-ons / pieces

Post by Audles » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:33 pm

I'd love a "Wicked Realism" Dungeon Dressing pack. Dwarvenite Toilets, buckets, bed pans, rushes, cook pots full of porridge, scrolls, etc. Having stuff that real people use in their day-to-day would be a lot of fun.

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