City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by AnimeSensei » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:45 pm

I remember the Q&A and "gridgate." It was mentioned that the only issue would be the grid and there were whole discussions about it. They did have pictures of CBS and MBS together. Nate posted them. That is why I'm frustrated, as I feel kind of slighted. I spent a lot of money on this to go WITH my KS1 and KS2 sets. I want them to be compatible.

And as someone who has a bunch of resin sets, I do have several pieces that don't fit right. That is partially why I was so excited for Dwarvenite and steel molds; it would mean that pieces would be more uniform.

I just hope they realize that is IS a concern for several of us, and they take the feedback into account for KS4. They need to address which standard KS4 will be backwards compatible with (or if it will be a new standard?) so people know ahead of time.
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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by Audles » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:17 pm

Echoing Law's statements above, I had it in mind it wasn't going to be perfect already. But it is a bit weird to have things not work well together. I'm hoping KS4 has an eye toward compatibility, but I'm guessing that's not a direction they're going to go. Another thing to remember is that most of these are hand sculpted - it's never going to be as perfect as something that's done by a computer. For better and worse.

There's certainly fixes for this. I'm not sure I'd say this stuff is incompatible... I'd say it's inconvenient to make work. I definitely think using a black tablecloth under the sets going forward will go a long way toward making it look okay on the table. That's not always possible, but probably a good tip. The real bummer is in water sets. I'm not convinced it's a problem yet. I'll have to play with it.

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by Saxon1974 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:51 pm

This is a concern, I was planning to use then mixed together. During the campaign they showed using them with the MBS resin set. Can anyone confirm they match the MBS?

Haven't got mine yet so this is worrisome.

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by Law » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:46 pm

madrigalian wrote: I don't recall it ever being said that they were being designed as anything but their own stand alone system for cities.
I'm with you, this doesn't really bug me, but I do think they mentioned that the sets would be compatible -- some kind of Q&A or comment on the KS forums, it feels to me that it came up.

Remember, there was that whole distraction with the changing of the grid which bugged people IMMENSELY. During that discussion, if nowhere else, I'm sure it was stated that the pieces would be compatible, and that only the lines of the grid would be off. If DF had simply come out and said, "Look, it's a different system, it's not designed to work with the old ones, they won't work right," that would have killed that whole side conversation pretty quickly.

Or maybe I'm misremembering and they did kinda say that. I know they basically admitted the grids would be incompatible. And I think in that context Stefan MIGHT have said that he viewed the CBS as an entirely self-sufficient system not designed for use with the older pieces. In fact, I remember him saying he wanted the KSIII pieces to replace the old resin MBS pieces because he felt the new stuff looked better.

So I guess it was kinda mixed messages. Some incompatibilities were known, and it was pretty clear that DF didn't promote compatibility heavily, but at the same time, it did seem like people could use both. Just go through the picture galleries and see all the layouts built with KS1 and KS2 tiles, including the elaborate "sewers under the streets" build which used KS2 water tiles to create a canal, or the also large "city by the mountains" which used KS2 tiles to create a large stony hill with a village on it.

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by kraegar » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:31 pm

I've been playing around with mixing old and new sets, and the difference doesn't bother me.

I do use some 3d printed spacers and such already so I could create bridges, wells, overhangs and such, as well as made stackable buildings using the KS1 pieces. I'll probably modify those a tad bit to better suit the differences going forward.

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by Vegomatic » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:48 am

We (as players) create bigger gaps than those just by bumping tiles while moving miniatures around. Also as game master when assembling a section on the fly, or uncovering a room we create gaps and holes. I don't have an issue with it (but clearly I am not the perfectionist that many of you are).

I suppose if I were trying to create a perfect diorama with the pieces (for taking photos or something) there might be an issue but for game play I don't see any problem with the pieces not fitting perfectly.

Real life usually doesn't fit perfectly.

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by Mydienon » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:18 am

I mix different terrain products already, so this isn't a big deal to me. It does mean I probably won't mix old and new DF pieces together in one building, and for sewers I'll probably use some sort of transition between them and other parts of a dungeon.

If I were to mix pieces together, and found a gap, I'd do what I typically do: spread out some pieces just a hair so there is no single big gap (as several people have suggested), or leave the gap and put something on top of it (debris, slime/lichen, table, bed, rug, etc.).

Note that if you use a black tablecloth or pieces of black felt under the terrain, any gaps become much less noticeable.

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by lostpict » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:36 am

I tested ROTA and MBS last night and they matched well with the Street tiles, but are shorter. Catacombs matched height with CBS, but have A smaller frontprint. This lead me to understand that each set has slightly different dimensions. I will test DOE abd resin dungeons tonight, with pictures for all.

I must say that ROTA looked pretty sweet in my square.

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by Magniopi » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:29 am

blinky wrote: Hopefully if you space the 2x2 out, so the error is across all of them, it might not be so bad?
That was my thought, too, and it does work to an extent. For the Dungeon Tiles, just increasing the spaces between tiles a hair smoothed out the gap and isn't really noticeable from tabletop distance.

I haven't tried it yet, but this does not seem like it would work as well with the water tiles. That would definitely be a disappointment as I love the idea of rivers cutting through town.

Overall, I wish the fit was better, but don't consider it a disaster.
City and Dungeon Tiles with Gap.jpg
City and Dungeon Tiles with Gap.jpg (127.02 KiB) Viewed 2757 times
City and Dungeon Tiles with Gap Spaced Away.jpg
City and Dungeon Tiles with Gap Spaced Away.jpg (115.3 KiB) Viewed 2757 times

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Re: City Builder Less Versatile Than Expected

Post by Oldent » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:26 am

Time to take a deep breath :idea:

I do not have my KS III yet. I am not going to worry yet.
Things to keep in mind. The molds are ridged the PVC has to be flexible to pop out.

PVC is thermoplastic.That means heat and cold and gravity will distort it.

Measurements :!:

Mark one eye ball is not "measured like a scientist" or measured like a cabinet maker.

The PVC is going to rack, warp, shrink,and get out of square. It is going to rack, warp, shrink,and get out of square at different rates from other materials/resin and at different rates in different environments.

I ordered mine unpainted so that I can make adjustments. I saw the photos.I've not seen any measurements or any one use a square.

Mark one eye ball has detected distorted and out of square. I have not seen any thing that can not be fixed
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