KS4 Peer Pledge Review

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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by cawshis » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:03 pm

Mydieon-

Yes. I believe that the pieces you're getting will provide a large variety of castle configs and with the add ons, you should have a "complete" set in that you can make complete GC or 2 towers and walls. YOu won't have the inside walls, which (to me) looks like they provide stability but you'll have everything else.

For my own purposes, I don't need a massive castle like the GC. Most of my encounters won't require a full castle (fight on the walls, a sneak attack into the entrance or maybe an open courtyard fight with some walls for height), so I'm trying to take advantage of the modular aspect of the sets combined with my CBS stuff to get a "good enough" castle now while still having a lot of cool bells and whistles!

In watching the livestream though, I'm impressed by the Mountains of Eridor set and pondering going for Mountains and a watchtower with a wall add on. I miss out on the gatehouse though which is rough. I wish they had a tower+gatehouse pledge! The ruins also have me excited...need to see more add-ons now!

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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by Mydienon » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:28 am

zenmaster wrote:@Stormfury - thanks a lot for your thoughts. I have to agree, the GCitadel pledge as structured is not extremely enticing. The lack of a decent tower breakout at present and getting some of the crenellation "required" for a 100% smooth build complicates things and adds to the price. The attraction of GC was "it's easier", but the way they structured it makes it not so easy. I may be wading into the tower add-ons with a smaller base pledge if that seems a better deal ultimately. You are right on the large towers too; I like the big towers better for playability, but seeing the minis on them in the video, the "small" towers" might be plenty big enough. Still waiting on tower break-in/outs and roof prices to see how things shake out before committing.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to follow the thousands of Kickstarter comments as closely as I have in the past, and I'm way behind on forum posts, too. My understanding from one of the Updates was that an add-on pack was introduced that allowed the Grand Citadel pledge to have breakout/independent towers separate from the walls, and that a second add-on designed for the Grand Citadel pledge provided crenelations.

For a Painted pledge, I figured the Grand Citadel pledge is $980 + $164 for Grand Citadel crenelation add-on + $28 for Tower Breakout = $1172.

For backers who have enough crenelations from KSIII, they can save the $164 (or get one of the smaller crenelation add-on packs), and for backers who don't plan to use towers separate from the walls, they can save $28.

What am I missing? What is wrong with the tower breakout add-on?

My plan was to simply get the Grand Citadel pledge, plus a few add-ons, and I expected to be able to make castles, towers, and other fortified structures with relatively good variety. I wanted to check this thread to get a sense of what others are planning to buy (since I figured my pledge isn't too unique) but reading through it, I may have misunderstood the complexity. Sure, there are lots of tempting add-ons, but isn't the Grand Citadel + GC Crenelation + Tower Breakout sufficient for pretty good variety as a basic "I just want castles" pledge?

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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by cawshis » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:20 am

Zenmaster-

I agree completely. The towers are adding a ton of cost to the overall pledge...I can probably cut down the towers to just 1 of each and be able to move around cash for other things.

Of course, to me, the towers are the coolest part of this kickstarter so it's hard to resist. Maybe a watchtower+st+a wall pack or two will suffice, especially considering the CBS stone buildings I already have.

Very difficult KS due to the configs of the add ons and cost. Hard choices need to be made!

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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by zenmaster » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:37 pm

@Blinky - I envy you your add-on only pledge :). Do you think there will be a Necromancer's Lair add-on? That throne room build seemed to be mostly showing what the KS4 castle pieces could do mixed in with other sets. If they said there would be such an add-on, should be cool. Also, as for the platform packs, NathanielWolf on the KS forum talked about how great cut plexiglass pieces worked as platforms. I haven't seen a lot of chatter from DF about platform packs, but if they appear at a reasonable cost, the convenience should be worth it.

----------------------------------------

@Stormfury - thanks a lot for your thoughts. I have to agree, the GCitadel pledge as structured is not extremely enticing. The lack of a decent tower breakout at present and getting some of the crenellation "required" for a 100% smooth build complicates things and adds to the price. The attraction of GC was "it's easier", but the way they structured it makes it not so easy. I may be wading into the tower add-ons with a smaller base pledge if that seems a better deal ultimately. You are right on the large towers too; I like the big towers better for playability, but seeing the minis on them in the video, the "small" towers" might be plenty big enough. Still waiting on tower break-in/outs and roof prices to see how things shake out before committing.

---------------------------------

@cawshis - I looked at your pledge and 2 things came to mind.

If you are already getting the rampart crenellations, I don't think you will be needing the straight crenellation pack unless you really want the extra special pieces. There is supposed to be a Tower Break-in pack to bring towers into walls, so I would think they should have appropriate crenellation included in that or in a special pack for that purpose.

Also, as Stormfury reminded me, wanting large towers is already a jump from small towers to inflate my cost. Including both small towers and large towers in your pledge jumps that cost as well. If you already have the watchtower, that large tower pack may be cuttable if you really need to stay in budget at the end. Most people I see going for modest or relatively modest pledges (in this KS low 4 figures or below :P) are going either large or small towers, not both, or at most 1 of each (and your watchtower kind of already gives you one large).

Just giving some ideas on possible trims for you. I am in the process of trying to figure how my KS2-3 and webstore ordered dungeon pieces will let me trim the fat on my KS4 pledge! I would like to get under 1500 at the very least, though cool new add-ons might make that difficult!
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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by kitenerd » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:36 pm

Im just planning a 6" round and a 4" square

I think with 4" round and another 4" square i should be able to do a full castle equivalent (with narrow passages)
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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by cawshis » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:33 pm

Great post zenmaster and sadly I don't have much to add to your thoughts. I'm suffering through a similar crisis of maybe too many options and trying to figure on maximum customization for my budget and looking to unlock the knowledge of the hive mind here.

Build Goals:
I'd like to be able to build portion of a castle - like maybe a corner with some walls or a pair of towers with a wall between. I have some CBS that I can use to supplement, but no battlements (I made the mistake of waiting for the castle KS). I don't need a full enclosed castle at this time as I just don't have the space and I don't really see it being game play friendly.

Considerations:
Towers are awesome and I'd like to have some. My CBS set with appropriate battlements can double as corners. I want the gatehouse as well. The mountain set is amazing, but I think I might need to pass on it unless I can squeeze in more money from somewhere.

Money:
I'd like to keep it $1000-1200.

With that in mind:
Base Pledge: Watchtower ($260), Ramparts ($230) = $490

Ramparts bells:
Ramparts inner wall $32
Ramparts Cren $38
Ramparts Double Thick Spacers $66
-The Double Thick spacers look to me like they can double as low walls or stacked two high can function as wall fillers as well. The platforms are a bonus maybe.
$136

Small Towers:
I kind of only understand the construction of towers in an abstract way - I don't see how they "connect" to walls, but I'm hoping this will become more clear.
To get a "complete" small tower, meaning floors and roofs, I need two different add ons, so:
Small Tower Add On (Fortified) - $54
ST Roof/Cren Add on - $30
I'm thinking I want two of these so I can make tall towers and eventually go nuts with KS1 curved dungeon pieces maybe, so $84x2 = $168

Large Towers:
I already have the watchtower, so I'm pondering just a LT Add On pack and a roof pack. This will let me build 2 3 story towers...one of which has a pair of doors instead of just 1 door (wonky!).
Large Tower (Fortified) - $98
Large Tower Roof - $36

I also want a batter cause it looks damn cool.
Batter $56

Lastly, it *looks* like I need the straight cren pack for the curves and a good assortment of crens - $102.

All told, that's a staggering $1086. On paper it looks like I can make a fairly sized structure with Gatehouse, 2 3story large towers, 2 2 story small towers with walls and spacers supplying different configs.

I don't get the usefulness of the tower floor pieces or the extensions - what are they good for?

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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by Stormfury » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:32 am

blinky wrote:Zen I suspect everyone is still trying to work out what they want. This KS is tricker than the others there are so many ways to build your castle, which is great.
Amen to that. I am all over the place.
zenmaster wrote: Your plans look very similar to what I would do if I didn't want 2 towers. Would like to make one side of a castle with two built-in round towers flanking the gatehouse or on the ends of a long wall or gatehouse wall (or one honking huge large tower on its own). The Grand Citadel pledge basically gives me those towers and the versatility to do a lot more with the other pieces, but that bumps up my add-on costs a bit if I want to do a fullish castle at some point :P.
If you're wanting to do 2 towers flanking the gate house, then prices are going to get a bit tough. I'd also recommend considering 4" towers to flank the gate house. Not as cool but could really save some $. You can get a solid 4 floors on each side with crenelations for $138 each. The only problem is connecting them to the gate house, but that's currently a problem with either the large or small towers as we haven't yet unlocked the flat connecting piece.

This saves about $100 as the equivalent large towers are $232 each. Another thing to consider is the type of top you want. The GC or two Watchtower pledges is currently the only way to get the large curved battlements. Question is that plus stretch goals worth the extra $30? Obviously the GC pledge is a better deal than 2 Watchtower + Citadel, but do you need/want the corners and walls from the citadel? If not, you might opt to go for the add-on towers.

I struggle with this as I'm not a huge fan of how the castle walls connect to the tower, plus not sure I really need the corner pieces or the 4" walls. I might opt to get towers and add a bunch of the 12" walls for length and height. I have enough 2" wall pieces from KS III and enough corner pieces from KS I that I wouldn't really need all those pieces.
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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by zenmaster » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:35 am

Kitenerd, thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts.

Your plans look very similar to what I would do if I didn't want 2 towers. Would like to make one side of a castle with two built-in round towers flanking the gatehouse or on the ends of a long wall or gatehouse wall (or one honking huge large tower on its own). The Grand Citadel pledge basically gives me those towers and the versatility to do a lot more with the other pieces, but that bumps up my add-on costs a bit if I want to do a fullish castle at some point :P.

Your pledge looks really good for one tower, gatehouse, and flexible pieces. Yes, how exactly the tower roofs and tops will shake out may require some pledge tweaking. So you think or know that some other cool, off-castle stuff is coming? I hope so, though my wallet may not :-).

Not very excited about the mountain? Is it mainly because cavern pieces let us do elevation already? I may easily drop down to some of the cliff window dressing as well.

kitenerd wrote:Zen

Finally took a look at your plans:
Have you considered 2x rampart crenelations as opposed to 1x castle? - cheaper and you get 4 tippy pots - if you are like me you have plenty of corners from ks3
Are you planning double thick walls? For $20 less you get 10 cubes instead of 8 - $5 each seems steep for the platforms (although castle level is pretty stingy on straight platforms - so you may need them)
For the rest it looks good - i think you will want 4" tower when roofs come out
Well, I like the look of the high crenellated corners, and I do get 2 more crenellated pieces with the castle vs. 2 rampart crenellations. (Not sure 12 pieces fully covers the GC with the minimal KS3 battlements I have) The oil pots don't excite me too much, but the lower cost by 12 $ doesn't hurt with what you suggest. Have to see how the tower breakout/in packs fall out.

I am probably going with castle thick walls to get the different posts and the couple extra spacers at this point. I plan to use platforms as docks/piers possibly, so the more I can get, the better, but 1 less won't hurt :-).

Thanks much for the advice. Looking forward to seeing what surprises DF has in store in the next week.
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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by blinky » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:36 am

Zen I suspect everyone is still trying to work out what they want. This KS is tricker than the others there are so many ways to build your castle, which is great.
I have not been following this KS as closely so I can't offer any insight apart from I'm sure more must have addons will be released, use the spread sheets and you will revisit you list a few more times.

I'm going small on this one and not getting a main pledge.
Once I made that decision it got rather simple.

I have also order some more KS3 battlements and KS3 wall arrows to beef up my KS3, enough for a simple tower/gatehouse or section of wall. Which is probably be enough for my needs.

Pledge Total: $ 616
The shipping destination will be within Australia or New Zealand.

Main Pledge:
1 X Add-Ons Only Collector ($42) (I think is is wrong, should it be $20??)
Add-ons
1 X Cube Spacer Pack - Painted ($66) [So handy ....]
2 X Stone Bridge Pack - Painted ($58) [Also super handy]
1 X Erinthor Mountains - Painted ($450) [Out door encounters, 8x8 yes please]

The cubes & bridges look super handy for KS1 & KS3 and general builds.
Also a bridge gets more scary when its physically elevated (Thou shall not pass).
The mountains... so many encounters and 8x8

Musts haves not yet released:

necromancer room & hopefully more packs like this. [I don't have wall indentations for the arrow slot covers, but it should be easy fix, maybe magnets)

Roof platforms [PLEASE PLEASE, big & small]

Maybes:
4" round towers and crenelations
larger battlements
other dressing items/siege equipment?

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Re: KS4 Peer Pledge Review

Post by kitenerd » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:07 am

Zen

Finally took a look at your plans:
Have you considered 2x rampart crenelations as opposed to 1x castle? - cheaper and you get 4 tippy pots - if you are like me you have plenty of corners from ks3
Are you planning double thick walls? For $20 less you get 10 cubes instead of 8 - $5 each seems steep for the platforms (although castle level is pretty stingy on straight platforms - so you may need them)
For the rest it looks good - i think you will want 4" tower when roofs come out
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