Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

hauntedcity
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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by hauntedcity » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:30 am

I missed this post when it started, so it may be too late, but let's give it a go anyway...

I'd like to see a comparison, laid out side-by-side, of expert vs add-on vs packaged.
For example, here's a Castle pledge (with all the extras) for $xxx.
Next to that, here's a Gatehouse with add-on packs to make a "castle" for $xxx.
Finally, here's the Count's Castle for $790.

That way, we can really see the different ways to basically get the same thing, but each one has different bells & whistles.

Thanks!

StevenO
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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by StevenO » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:06 am

SirLancelittle wrote:...
The solution would be to include 2 sets of indent crenelations in the Grand Citadel pledge. Since almost everyone who gets a grand citadel wants some sort of crenelations there won't be wasted pieces and this would make it very easy to add KS3 crenelations or KS4 battlements to a Grand Citadel (since you wouldn't need any additional KS3 crenelation packs). It would also have the advantage of removing the need for a Grand Citadel crenelation pack; you could just use a Citadel crenelation pack for the Grand Citadel. I believe this change would cover everyone who wants a two tower citadel and, since there are indent crenelations in the tower transition pack, they should be covered for a four tower citadel as well. I know this is late in the project to be making changes but this is an $10 increase (1.3%) to the GC pledge that would save many people $80+.
Considering that the GC stretch goals already have four of the Accessory Slot Crenellations it should be easy enough to replace those with those pairs of Indent Crenellations. I mean other things are already being replaced by corner fill walls for if/when those towers are broken out so why not add the special crenellations that will make them work when added to others. Doing that also provides a great excuse to cut the GC crenellations add-on since those pieces are the only thing changing if from the Cathedral pack.

I know this thread is not supposed to be about changing packs and wish lists but with that change I'd also like to see the Cathedral Crenellation pack exchanged for a simple 8 pack of those Rampart Crenellations; going from Castle to Cathedral takes two of them. The difference between Castle and Rampart is that same 8 pieces plus the two corners which would be just fine for someone who happens to want to add towers to the corners instead of corner ramparts.

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by SirLancelittle » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:04 pm

jchunick wrote:Thanks for the clarification. I had only seen the post here and it looks like I definitely should have gone over to the other post to read. I'm going to go over this, as well so that I have a very clear understanding and can then go to the DF crew with this and a few suggestions to address this.
I would like to add my voice to the list of people concerned about indent crenelations and I would like to add a couple of suggestions because I think there are some relative easy ways to fix this problem.

The basic problem with indent crenelations is that that the Grand Citadel require two sets of them but you can only get indent crenelations in large add-on packs with a ton of other crenelations. This is a problem for people who want to use KS3 crenelations or KS4 battlements and don't want any other crenelations.

The solution would be to include 2 sets of indent crenelations in the Grand Citadel pledge. Since almost everyone who gets a grand citadel wants some sort of crenelations there won't be wasted pieces and this would make it very easy to add KS3 crenelations or KS4 battlements to a Grand Citadel (since you wouldn't need any additional KS3 crenelation packs). It would also have the advantage of removing the need for a Grand Citadel crenelation pack; you could just use a Citadel crenelation pack for the Grand Citadel. I believe this change would cover everyone who wants a two tower citadel and, since there are indent crenelations in the tower transition pack, they should be covered for a four tower citadel as well. I know this is late in the project to be making changes but this is an $10 increase (1.3%) to the GC pledge that would save many people $80+.

The other suggestions I would make would be
1) Shrinking the straight crenelation assortment. I think of assortment packs as small packs designed to give people a just a taste but, at 32 pieces, this is not small pack. With the suggested change above, people wouldn't need indent crenelations in this pack and since we got accessory slot crenelations as a stretch goals those might be need either. I think people would be happy with a pack about half this size.
2) The default number of straight crenelations needed for a citadel/grand citadel is 30 but the straight battlements come in packs of 12 meaning 2 packs leaves you 6 short but 3 packs gives you 6 too many. Shrinking this pack to 10 battlements or creating a citadel battlements pack would be nice for citadel/grand citadel folks.
3) It is unclear if we need crenelation to battlements pieces to transition from indent crenelations to battlements. If we do, it would be nice to have a citadel battlements pack with 26 straight battlements, 8 transition pieces and 4 corners. I believe this would cover both the two tower option (26 battlements, 4 transitions) and the 4 tower option (22 battlements, 8 transitions) with only a small number of wasted pieces if you didn't want both. The current inability to buy transitions (outside of large packs) is worrisome if these transitions are needed.

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by GX.Sigma » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:02 pm

Law wrote:I'm 99% sure the walls are CBS height -- seems like they're designed to go with the new floor. The point is that now you'll have a 2x4 floor and posts at each corner. The CBS insert walls will fit fine in the 4" side, but there is a need for a wall to slot into the 2" side. This. . . is that wall. (dramatic music)

Seems to be a combo requested by people who wanted a smaller footprint for CBS builds.
Yes, this seems to be the case. My problem is the interaction between the new 2" walls and the new tall corner posts in the very same set. If the new walls are the same height as the old walls, and there's a riser to allow the old walls to fit the new corner posts, and no riser included for the new walls, this means the new walls won't fit the new corner posts.

Why would they release a new expansion set that doesn't even work with itself? There are two possibilities:

1: (IMO most likely): This is an oversight. If so, I hope they fix it before the pledge manager gets locked in.

2: The new walls are not intended to work with the new corner posts, only the old ones. If so, I will not buy this add-on. This makes my heart sad but my wallet happy. Maybe next year they'll rerelease it with all the pieces.

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by lostpict » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:16 pm

It would be awesome if DF offered CBS style walls that are 4" tall (including the floor) and fit between tall CBS pillars. A solid wall, a wall with arrowslits, a wall with tall abbey windows, a wall with a normal door, and a wall with a large double wide door (wood and iron grate variants) would enable all kinds of awesome keep builds. (OBTW, I know we are supposed to be talking about KS4 demos, but these would just rock!)
Regards,

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Little Men blog - sfdfsfd.wordpress.com

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by Law » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:05 pm

gkramer wrote:
GX.Sigma wrote:I'm confused about the height of the 2x2" walls in the Stone Advanced Builder set.
That is a great question, and points to something that I didn't even think of during the Kickstarter. I wish this question had come up then.

The 2x2 walls are labeled as "short", which led me to believe they were old CBS height.
I'm 99% sure the walls are CBS height -- seems like they're designed to go with the new floor. The point is that now you'll have a 2x4 floor and posts at each corner. The CBS insert walls will fit fine in the 4" side, but there is a need for a wall to slot into the 2" side. This. . . is that wall. (dramatic music)

Seems to be a combo requested by people who wanted a smaller footprint for CBS builds.

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by gkramer » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:54 pm

GX.Sigma wrote:I'm confused about the height of the 2x2" walls in the Stone Advanced Builder set.
That is a great question, and points to something that I didn't even think of during the Kickstarter. I wish this question had come up then.

The 2x2 walls are labeled as "short", which led me to believe they were old CBS height.

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by GX.Sigma » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:55 am

I'm confused about the height of the 2x2" walls in the Stone Advanced Builder set.

It comes with "risers" for the regular 4" walls. From what I can figure out, the tall corner posts are the equivalent height of two walls and a floor. The riser is the height of a floor thickness. So, you would stack two normal city builder walls and the riser, and it would be the right height to fit the tall corner posts (flush with the gatehouse ceiling, or a two-storey KS3 building). This is shown in the barbican photo earlier in this thread. This is awesome so far.

The problem is, according to the graphic on the addons page, the Stone Advanced Builder set does not include risers for the new 2" walls. Are these walls the same height as normal city builder walls? If so, without a riser, they won't reach the top of the tall corner posts. Or are they tall enough to reach the required height without a riser (i.e., each one is actually the height of a KS3 wall + half a floor thickness)? If so, it will be too tall for a normal corner post. Either way, modularity suffers.

Or is the graphic incorrect, and there will be 2" risers included?

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by DeGazio » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:36 am

We should have the option to pay for the Stretch Goal Freebies as a package.
DF still gets the money and support, it's no longer a freebie, but those wanting the RS can get the benefit of the Stretch Goals without having to buy something they don't want in order to get them. Everyone is happy!

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by KenCOWrite » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:13 pm

I will second the need for how to do crenellations on a double thick wall - need them one sided or you have an odd u-shape of battlements, and then an open space on the side half.

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