Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

GX.Sigma
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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by GX.Sigma » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:02 pm

Law wrote:I'm 99% sure the walls are CBS height -- seems like they're designed to go with the new floor. The point is that now you'll have a 2x4 floor and posts at each corner. The CBS insert walls will fit fine in the 4" side, but there is a need for a wall to slot into the 2" side. This. . . is that wall. (dramatic music)

Seems to be a combo requested by people who wanted a smaller footprint for CBS builds.
Yes, this seems to be the case. My problem is the interaction between the new 2" walls and the new tall corner posts in the very same set. If the new walls are the same height as the old walls, and there's a riser to allow the old walls to fit the new corner posts, and no riser included for the new walls, this means the new walls won't fit the new corner posts.

Why would they release a new expansion set that doesn't even work with itself? There are two possibilities:

1: (IMO most likely): This is an oversight. If so, I hope they fix it before the pledge manager gets locked in.

2: The new walls are not intended to work with the new corner posts, only the old ones. If so, I will not buy this add-on. This makes my heart sad but my wallet happy. Maybe next year they'll rerelease it with all the pieces.

SirLancelittle
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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by SirLancelittle » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:04 pm

jchunick wrote:Thanks for the clarification. I had only seen the post here and it looks like I definitely should have gone over to the other post to read. I'm going to go over this, as well so that I have a very clear understanding and can then go to the DF crew with this and a few suggestions to address this.
I would like to add my voice to the list of people concerned about indent crenelations and I would like to add a couple of suggestions because I think there are some relative easy ways to fix this problem.

The basic problem with indent crenelations is that that the Grand Citadel require two sets of them but you can only get indent crenelations in large add-on packs with a ton of other crenelations. This is a problem for people who want to use KS3 crenelations or KS4 battlements and don't want any other crenelations.

The solution would be to include 2 sets of indent crenelations in the Grand Citadel pledge. Since almost everyone who gets a grand citadel wants some sort of crenelations there won't be wasted pieces and this would make it very easy to add KS3 crenelations or KS4 battlements to a Grand Citadel (since you wouldn't need any additional KS3 crenelation packs). It would also have the advantage of removing the need for a Grand Citadel crenelation pack; you could just use a Citadel crenelation pack for the Grand Citadel. I believe this change would cover everyone who wants a two tower citadel and, since there are indent crenelations in the tower transition pack, they should be covered for a four tower citadel as well. I know this is late in the project to be making changes but this is an $10 increase (1.3%) to the GC pledge that would save many people $80+.

The other suggestions I would make would be
1) Shrinking the straight crenelation assortment. I think of assortment packs as small packs designed to give people a just a taste but, at 32 pieces, this is not small pack. With the suggested change above, people wouldn't need indent crenelations in this pack and since we got accessory slot crenelations as a stretch goals those might be need either. I think people would be happy with a pack about half this size.
2) The default number of straight crenelations needed for a citadel/grand citadel is 30 but the straight battlements come in packs of 12 meaning 2 packs leaves you 6 short but 3 packs gives you 6 too many. Shrinking this pack to 10 battlements or creating a citadel battlements pack would be nice for citadel/grand citadel folks.
3) It is unclear if we need crenelation to battlements pieces to transition from indent crenelations to battlements. If we do, it would be nice to have a citadel battlements pack with 26 straight battlements, 8 transition pieces and 4 corners. I believe this would cover both the two tower option (26 battlements, 4 transitions) and the 4 tower option (22 battlements, 8 transitions) with only a small number of wasted pieces if you didn't want both. The current inability to buy transitions (outside of large packs) is worrisome if these transitions are needed.

StevenO
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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by StevenO » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:06 am

SirLancelittle wrote:...
The solution would be to include 2 sets of indent crenelations in the Grand Citadel pledge. Since almost everyone who gets a grand citadel wants some sort of crenelations there won't be wasted pieces and this would make it very easy to add KS3 crenelations or KS4 battlements to a Grand Citadel (since you wouldn't need any additional KS3 crenelation packs). It would also have the advantage of removing the need for a Grand Citadel crenelation pack; you could just use a Citadel crenelation pack for the Grand Citadel. I believe this change would cover everyone who wants a two tower citadel and, since there are indent crenelations in the tower transition pack, they should be covered for a four tower citadel as well. I know this is late in the project to be making changes but this is an $10 increase (1.3%) to the GC pledge that would save many people $80+.
Considering that the GC stretch goals already have four of the Accessory Slot Crenellations it should be easy enough to replace those with those pairs of Indent Crenellations. I mean other things are already being replaced by corner fill walls for if/when those towers are broken out so why not add the special crenellations that will make them work when added to others. Doing that also provides a great excuse to cut the GC crenellations add-on since those pieces are the only thing changing if from the Cathedral pack.

I know this thread is not supposed to be about changing packs and wish lists but with that change I'd also like to see the Cathedral Crenellation pack exchanged for a simple 8 pack of those Rampart Crenellations; going from Castle to Cathedral takes two of them. The difference between Castle and Rampart is that same 8 pieces plus the two corners which would be just fine for someone who happens to want to add towers to the corners instead of corner ramparts.

hauntedcity
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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by hauntedcity » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:30 am

I missed this post when it started, so it may be too late, but let's give it a go anyway...

I'd like to see a comparison, laid out side-by-side, of expert vs add-on vs packaged.
For example, here's a Castle pledge (with all the extras) for $xxx.
Next to that, here's a Gatehouse with add-on packs to make a "castle" for $xxx.
Finally, here's the Count's Castle for $790.

That way, we can really see the different ways to basically get the same thing, but each one has different bells & whistles.

Thanks!

Bonham
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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by Bonham » Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:51 am

Try to create builds that show how various parts work together without all the fancy film-work. Fairly simple multi-angle shots of various build examples.

For example, I'd like to see how some of the various tower parts would work together and look. So, build one Fortified 6" Tower with Battlements (maybe with some various bonus items like Oil Buckets and Arrow Shutters), and put a 4" Fortified tower with Battlements on top of it, with a bridge linking over to a Palace based setup of the same with Crenelations instead of Battlements. Maybe create some various heights using tower pieces, from something as simple as a one story with Crenelations to a two or three story with Battlements, etc.
Cory Magel (aka Bonham in my MMORPG days).
Published Freelance Writer, Passable Photographer, and 40ish something kid.

GX.Sigma
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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by GX.Sigma » Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:46 pm

GX.Sigma wrote:My problem is the interaction between the new 2" walls and the new tall corner posts in the very same set. If the new walls are the same height as the old walls, and there's a riser to allow the old walls to fit the new corner posts, and no riser included for the new walls, this means the new walls won't fit the new corner posts.
Update: I emailed them about this, and got a response from Nate. Apparently, the tall corner posts are intended for extending the gatehouse vertically, and they are not planning to include 2" risers. The 2" door wall has corner posts built-in (similar to the extreme offset door wall, I imagine), so it wouldn't be compatible anyway.

I think I'll get the Square Castle Tower add-on instead, but I look forward to seeing what people do with the Advanced Builder set (and I'll definitely get one in Tudor if/when that comes out).

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by Kryzsko » Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:58 pm

SirLancelittle, I agree with you on all points. I just want to go around my Grand Citadel walls and towers with battlements. It would be nice if there was a GC battlements pack the same way there is a GC crenelation pack. It is a pain to have to transition from battlements to crenelations and back again, but if we do need to do that please make it easy. I myself would like battlements with tower cutouts so we did not need transitions at all.

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by bernyleung » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:54 am

And this is just the point that illustrates the lack of modularity in the GC base pledge. They've forced themselves to offer a separate crenellations pack for the Citadel and GC because of the integrated watchtowers which cannot be broken out except with another pack. And if they want to do battlements, they would have to do two different battlements packs for the Citadel and GC as well. Far better to have made the GC buildable from separate base pledges and with an included add-on in order to streamline the factory packaging process.

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by zoroaster100 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:36 pm

Right now my biggest frustration in trying to plan my final pledge for the pledge manager is not knowing whether it will be possible to acquire the pieces that are currently unique to the Royal Stronghold outside of that pledge in other add ons. Right now my preference would be to go for the stretch goals by going with a Grand Citadel plus numerous add ons to allow me to build the Royal Stronghold if desired, but I don't want to give up on the pieces that right now are unique to the RS. But on the other hand, if the stretch goals won't be available in add-ons, then I don't want to give up the chance to get them if I need to get a pledge with access to stretch goals.

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Re: Pledge Manager Clarity Needs

Post by bernyleung » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:05 pm

For those of us getting unpainted base pledges, I wonder if DF would consider adding a reasonable charge to "upgrade" a non-painted set of SG to a painted set of SG?

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