What Can We Improve for KS6?

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by GODofwar » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:32 pm

kodiakbear wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:33 am
AnimeSensei wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:05 am
I don't think DF wants a thread full of people getting frustrated with each other; they wanted thread containing feedback for what they can do better.
Amen

[color=#000000]After asking what they can do to improve for their next KS it must be strange for DF to have their most successful dollar wise KS and third most successful KS by number of backers bringing out such anger and frustration.[/color]

And see below...not just most successful dollar wise. What blows my mind is that people complain about # of pieces (ie, how much choice we had) and complexity (which I assume refers to the many options for getting pieces). Also a lot of bitterness over capstone pieces...which translates at least to me as bitching about some people getting special rewards. The "some people" being those who spend more money. This gets into political territory, and I dislike it very much. Those who spend more, get more. Finally, 'not being able to get everything' is another consequence of bad ideas - you have no right to "get everything" ....unless you pay for it. This thinking is of a piece with Stefan's blast against 'greedy corporations', which the Trogs will recall I also objected to.
Folks, its a game. Its a game company. They are taking big risks for small firm. Stefan has totally,completely unrealistic artistic needs. Jay acts as a flywheel, constraining Stefan within the bounds of reality (versus Capital "A" Art). Stefan drives to get neat stuff (Translation for Stefan: Artistically and gaming high value). I imagine Nate and the others alternately act as brakes, as feet on the accelerator and sometime just hide and let Stefan and Jay debate it out.
None of this is bad. Just very human. But us on the outside have only a customer's voice. None of us has a dime of our money or a day of our lives invested in DwF. Jay, Stefan, Suzy, Nate, Nina and all the others do. Let 'em have some room.


If backer numbers and the pledge total had remand as low as Castles for this KS, it might make more sense but by number of backers this was better than City so if so many people pledged why so much anger. I guess people are angry they just can not get it all or just everything they want in one box.

I don't call this anger. I call it petulance. 'I can't buy everything {so there should be less or I will feel bad...}
Feel bad? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. I feel great. The "complexity" didn't bother me at all.
It just means I have to do some work to figure out what I want / what I can afford. Tough.[color]


The only big thing I think DF messed up on was telling us late last year and early this year that this KS was going to be simple and then having a KS with so many awesome things like Dungeon items and Burrows and Jade Forsaken Temple.

Kodiak, you are right on. This was a major mistake. I do not think it was intentional.
I think Topsy just growed. But DwF should have made a formal announcement that the 'simple and chea;' algorhythm was out the window. Instead, they should have realized the power of communication and emphasized that while it would still be possible to get great deals on KS5 AND get a collecdtion of what you wanted, there would be no simplicity. Emphasize you could still go cheap (but not get everything ) but you could not have simplicity. Its called expectation management.


Perhaps if they know the piece count for KS6 on Jan 1st they should tell us so we know how much awesome trouble we are in for KS6.


Of course they do not know. Even if the did, DwF responsiveness to US, the customers,would mean their announcements would go out the window.

Two simple examples.

ONE Trog, Dan, ranted and ranted about a Cages set. he got it.

A few Commenters ranted and ranted about a Big Box with a usable surface on the lid. They got it.

Make up your minds,folks. Do you want DwF to listen and respond (which AUTOMATICALLY means more pieces and more complexity) or do you want simple?

Real world limit: you cannot have both.


the Least Weasel
Totus KS Delenda Sunt, especially the parts of gthis one Baroness Sabelle sculpted which overthrrew my reason and demanded I buy more...
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Mobius » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:43 pm

Another +1 to more limited scope.

I really like the Temple and the Burrows, but for anyone under $500 there's no budget room to get them along with all of the other stuff. I feel almost like the"$500 and under" and "$1000 and over" are in 2 different KS projects.

I know it doesn't make financial sense for DF to run multiple KS projects per year, but I would have been all over Burrows if they were a small KS on their own 6 months from now, but I had to skip them here and will likely never get any of them (there's already too many other things I need to catch up on from the DF store).

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Blue Prophet » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:36 pm

Animewarped wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:23 pm
I've been reading a few of the other forums and thought they had a some great ideas for KS6. There was talk of wanting some accessory packs packs to change the feel of the wonderful dungeon pieces that have been put out. things like LED sets, different themed inserts for the new Vaulted pieces, and magnetic pieces. Maybe you could re-introduce packs for the different walls for those that missed them this KS. I know that I will have a nice collection of pieces after my DoD gets here, and I would love ways to change the look and feel without having to buy a lot more walls and floors. I also think that a pure add-on KS would give everyone some really nice new pieces to really bring their existing dungeons to life while letting DF plan out their next big creation.
Haha. You described what many of us were expecting and wanting in KS5. [welcome to the forums btw]

Once you have a decent collection of basic pieces, you want stuff to spice it up or be used in a new way.

There was a lot of cool stuff in KS5, but many items require you to buy some quantity of the new vaulted arch walls and floors. If the scope was much smaller for this, I would have felt fine giving a bit more to get decent amount of the new design for variety's sake. But there were so many things that are way more important to enhance what I have, that I did not want to get much if any of the new vaulted walls (and I already have enough basic floors for now). They could have just used basic KS1 style walls (even if resculpted) instead of the vaulted walls to keep the prices down a bit for newbies and make all the extra parts like elevations which have sculpted pillars blend more seamlessly with Classic Dungeon tiles (which of course don't have pillars). There are plenty of companies that offer older products during a Kickstarter to go along with the new stuff, since you must have something in the campaign that is new.

An example is for me is Gorgon Tiers. I would have preferred it didn't have the walls or 2x2 floors. That would have lowered the unpainted price from $222 to somewhere between $130-150. There there could have been something like instructions to, "Get one add-on pack A and two packs of C of the new vaulted pieces to complete this Gorgon Tiers encounter layout." Separating the basics into several packs (which they actually did) and building "encounters" that use multiples of the basic pieces would give examples of cool builds that are simple to replicate by just buying the Special Pieces Pack plus whatever needed Basics Packs. The "Basics" packs could mean the new vaulted walls/corners, floors, passage pieces.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by evandariel » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:29 pm

I think a lot will count as whales if 10 KS1 is your idea of a whale. I have 15 lol.

And yeah, hard to get pieces are pointless. It means the funding for that mold got spread around to a bunch of people who won't even get a copy. Vermillian Lizard mini, I am looking at you... I am never buying that lava encounter, so I'll never be able to get one. If it was in a mini pack, I'd probably have one on my pledge.
These people are good people here....except jason.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Dolken » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:20 pm

I have read all the view points in this thread and agree with almost all of them. One view point I have not seen here are from the "whales".

I am going to guess I would be classed as a "whale". I have 10 sets plus of KS 1 and 10 sets KS 2. Also two empire sets and 16 monster sewers, $11,000 of castles KS, and put $7000 to KS 5. So maybe I am a Gray Whale as I know I am not anywere near a Blue Whale.

So from my stand point as a "whale" the chase pieces (cap stones) are the bonus to entice the encounter packs to be bought. And the hope is the more encounter bought the cheaper they become to make, I assume. But this tactics to me is more of a preorder system not a KS model of asking for funds to get molds made in return for products. What I believe the cap stones should be turn into is a set for all KS backers to be able to buy as the KS money is used to make the molds for the cap stones. I would either make the cap stone set a limited edition painted set, diffrent from the encounter set, or only unpainted and be offered to KS backers only to buy and sell the few overage on the web store.

I hope the KS team sees this and give it some thought.

As far as the running and structure of the KS was great. More videos, different builds of the encounters, better streaming.

The SG were used to make the encounters better for sales in the web store, again I am assume, as this to me was the main reason for the KS. So those to me were fine. I do understand the old timers point of view of not wanting the walls, floors, corners. But this is why the KS was made to get these new dungeon encounters made and in the web store.

I think Dwarven Forge went out of the way to make as many add-ons for the backers who did not want the floor, walls and corners is in of it's self a SG of sorts. As these special packs cost money.

I will admit I do not like chase pieces. I do not like false rarity as we know the KS money is used to made the molds.

I will state very simply if the chase piece system is used again with so many chase piece I will most likely do what I did with magic the gathering and just sell it off and walk away.

AnimeSensei next year I might message you ... lol

But seriously I hate chase pieces.

My 2 coppers.
Dolken

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by eternityshard » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:55 pm

AnimeSensei wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:51 pm
Welcome to the forum, eternityshard!
Hehe, thanks. I've been a member for years. Just lingering. Also, oh hey, I have badges ;-)

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by AnimeSensei » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:51 pm

Welcome to the forum, eternityshard!
106 Resin and 159 Dwarvenite Sets/Packs Owned

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by eternityshard » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:09 pm

+1 also for more limited scope. I'd even be all for limited scope more often. Instead of one mega campaign per year, do two biannual smaller campaigns. Like a lot of others, I went *way* over my original sane budget, and I'm really going to regret it for the next few months.

I felt almost forced to do that because of the implicit threat of not getting an opportunity to get this stuff again, or at least not at such a big discount. Yes, no one is actually forcing me to spend money, but with the relationship we have with Dwarven Forge, you kinda do feel that way. After a couple times of that though, that relationship will sour.

My biggest hope would be to see *two* kickstarters per year, but each with a smaller more limited scope. I could easily, happily, spend probably 50% more in total if it was spread out over the year. I have no idea if that is feasible from the business side, but as a consumer it would be so much better.

As for specifics, I either would like to see a lot of dressing that I can apply to all the stuff I own from the days of Resin and KS1-KS2. Things that clip over top of a wall, or insert into corner pieces or arrowslit pieces that add tapestries. Alternatively (perhaps in that second biannual KS I mentioned above) I'd love to see more scatter-type terrain for outside the dungeon: trees, cliff walls, rocks, outdoor elevations. Also just outdoor terrain. Grassy ground "floors", river floor tiles, tiles with attached foliage. Yes, all that stuff can be purchased only from various sources, but it is often very fragile and messy and never of Dwarven Forge quality.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Audles » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:35 pm

+1 to limited scope. Honestly I set a pretty meager amount and walked away this year. Knowing it's going to be too much to pay attention to and will change in the pledge manager anyway.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Animewarped » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:23 pm

I've been reading a few of the other forums and thought they had a some great ideas for KS6. There was talk of wanting some accessory packs packs to change the feel of the wonderful dungeon pieces that have been put out. things like LED sets, different themed inserts for the new Vaulted pieces, and magnetic pieces. Maybe you could re-introduce packs for the different walls for those that missed them this KS. I know that I will have a nice collection of pieces after my DoD gets here, and I would love ways to change the look and feel without having to buy a lot more walls and floors. I also think that a pure add-on KS would give everyone some really nice new pieces to really bring their existing dungeons to life while letting DF plan out their next big creation.

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