What Can We Improve for KS6?

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kodiakbear
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by kodiakbear » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:53 am

KS5 was run very awesomely but do not say or even hint you guys plan to do a simple KS and then give us KS5.

I was using the pledge manager and a fan made excel file everyday to change my pledge list.

The only way this KS was simple was if you happen to have funds to pledge for a DoD and then sat back and watched your stretch goals add up.

So what I am saying is while I wished for a more simple KS the pledge total says you guys did almost everything right.

So do it again for KS6 "Forces of Nature ;) " just don't tell us it will be simple!

PS your pictures and films are awesome but your live video is way to pixilicious to show off the pieces.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by GardenDM » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:34 am

GX.Sigma wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:48 pm
kitenerd wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:45 pm
Most backers come with a budget. Most of us go over. But the fact is if you introduce 75 new sculpts and i drop $1,000 you will make more money than if you introduce 150 new sculpts and i drop $1,000.
Well I can't argue with this logic, but I just wanted to offer a counterpoint in defense of DF's approach.

I really don't understand all the complaints about scope.

I'd rather have 150 things to choose from than 75 things to choose from. If KS5 had a smaller scope similar to KS1, I might not have been able to get the spike floors and cages I wanted. I didn't get the Burrows, but maybe someone else really wanted the Burrows, and if the scope had been smaller, they wouldn't be able to get them. More choice is better than less choice, right? Am I alone in thinking this?

Furthermore, I am baffled by the notion that DF should somehow be obligated to make it easier/cheaper for the uber-fans to collect absolutely everything. That's just not how it works.

I'm a big fan of Magic: The Gathering. You don't see Wizards of the Coast going "Hey, people complained that they couldn't collect every Magic card, so we're releasing a box that has every Magic card, so that everyone can easily have every card." No! The very fact that they're difficult to collect is what gets customers to pay more money to build up their collection. Also, because no one can realistically collect them all, everyone has a unique and personalized collection. More choice = more fun!

If you decide you want to collect every DF piece, DF doesn't have any reason to make it cheaper for you--in fact, they have an incentive to make it more expensive for you (cf. limited edition color schemes), because you're a "captive audience" if you will. It's just the laws of supply and demand. If someone is willing to pay $4000 for a dungeon, they'd be crazy not to offer a $4000 dungeon. Whether you buy it or not is your decision.

As for myself, my annual budget is $200-400, and I'm glad I had so much cool stuff to choose from this year (as opposed to last year, when even the simplest castle was far beyond my budget).
As much as I'm struggling to find the right balance in my pledge (due to the bounty of options!), I agree with this.

Ask yourself if you wouldn't be just a bit happier if DF had managed to release ruins this time around. Oh, and those cool pedestals, etc., etc. Yes, there's a pang of regret in not being able to get it all, but that's counter-balanced by knowing that at least it got made. DF isn't Hasbro - there are no guarantees they'll be doing this at all next year, so the more of their genius we get into the market now, the better shot we have at getting it ever. (fingers crossed of course that we get another 20 years of these Kickstarters to pick and choose from :)

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Runeweaver » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:08 am

At heart I really do agree with this, but what I mean by limited scope is more along the lines of I just can't get any more stuff. I'm at saturation. So maybe that's a good thing, but it also affects the longevity of the market. AND it is a niche market.

Lastly, I don't like spending this much money. And I won't do much more of it, or rather my wife won't have much more of it. That said I don't think I can handle another kick starter like this. If they continue to want to have customers like me, which I am not unique, they need to dole out the opium in smaller amounts or it will kill me. They can probably make more money in the long run by giving smaller dimes at a time.
GX.Sigma wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:48 pm
kitenerd wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:45 pm
Most backers come with a budget. Most of us go over. But the fact is if you introduce 75 new sculpts and i drop $1,000 you will make more money than if you introduce 150 new sculpts and i drop $1,000.
Well I can't argue with this logic, but I just wanted to offer a counterpoint in defense of DF's approach.

I really don't understand all the complaints about scope.

I'd rather have 150 things to choose from than 75 things to choose from. If KS5 had a smaller scope similar to KS1, I might not have been able to get the spike floors and cages I wanted. I didn't get the Burrows, but maybe someone else really wanted the Burrows, and if the scope had been smaller, they wouldn't be able to get them. More choice is better than less choice, right? Am I alone in thinking this?

Furthermore, I am baffled by the notion that DF should somehow be obligated to make it easier/cheaper for the uber-fans to collect absolutely everything. That's just not how it works.

I'm a big fan of Magic: The Gathering. You don't see Wizards of the Coast going "Hey, people complained that they couldn't collect every Magic card, so we're releasing a box that has every Magic card, so that everyone can easily have every card." No! The very fact that they're difficult to collect is what gets customers to pay more money to build up their collection. Also, because no one can realistically collect them all, everyone has a unique and personalized collection. More choice = more fun!

If you decide you want to collect every DF piece, DF doesn't have any reason to make it cheaper for you--in fact, they have an incentive to make it more expensive for you (cf. limited edition color schemes), because you're a "captive audience" if you will. It's just the laws of supply and demand. If someone is willing to pay $4000 for a dungeon, they'd be crazy not to offer a $4000 dungeon. Whether you buy it or not is your decision.

As for myself, my annual budget is $200-400, and I'm glad I had so much cool stuff to choose from this year (as opposed to last year, when even the simplest castle was far beyond my budget).

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by GX.Sigma » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:48 pm

kitenerd wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:45 pm
Most backers come with a budget. Most of us go over. But the fact is if you introduce 75 new sculpts and i drop $1,000 you will make more money than if you introduce 150 new sculpts and i drop $1,000.
Well I can't argue with this logic, but I just wanted to offer a counterpoint in defense of DF's approach.

I really don't understand all the complaints about scope.

I'd rather have 150 things to choose from than 75 things to choose from. If KS5 had a smaller scope similar to KS1, I might not have been able to get the spike floors and cages I wanted. I didn't get the Burrows, but maybe someone else really wanted the Burrows, and if the scope had been smaller, they wouldn't be able to get them. More choice is better than less choice, right? Am I alone in thinking this?

Furthermore, I am baffled by the notion that DF should somehow be obligated to make it easier/cheaper for the uber-fans to collect absolutely everything. That's just not how it works.

I'm a big fan of Magic: The Gathering. You don't see Wizards of the Coast going "Hey, people complained that they couldn't collect every Magic card, so we're releasing a box that has every Magic card, so that everyone can easily have every card." No! The very fact that they're difficult to collect is what gets customers to pay more money to build up their collection. Also, because no one can realistically collect them all, everyone has a unique and personalized collection. More choice = more fun!

If you decide you want to collect every DF piece, DF doesn't have any reason to make it cheaper for you--in fact, they have an incentive to make it more expensive for you (cf. limited edition color schemes), because you're a "captive audience" if you will. It's just the laws of supply and demand. If someone is willing to pay $4000 for a dungeon, they'd be crazy not to offer a $4000 dungeon. Whether you buy it or not is your decision.

As for myself, my annual budget is $200-400, and I'm glad I had so much cool stuff to choose from this year (as opposed to last year, when even the simplest castle was far beyond my budget).

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by DWChancellor » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:01 pm

If by "theory" you mean "incentive to sell more of something else with good margins" then you've got it. I mean, the entire diamond and jewelry industry is based on artificial scarcity (stretching comparison a little there...).

Don't underestimate the power of completionism and "but I really want that one capstone..." I'm sitting here playing with numbers doing just that. There are lots of buyers with lots and lots more money who definitely like the sound of completion.

Geeze, gold Apple watches and whatever...
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evandariel
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by evandariel » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:58 pm

There's apparently two of these so I repost this here because everyone loves to hear Jason's opinion on things, amirite.

The only problem I had with encounters was that an 'encounter' can't really be considered an encounter without walls and floors. So, the encounters were rife with pieces KS1/2 backers didn't need. If you do go the encounter route in the future, it'd be nice if there were two versions of the encounter, one with all the stuff to make it a stand-alone build (like this time), and one with just the highlight pieces, dressing, and new molds. That way if someone wants/needs the whole 'encounter', they get it, and if someone wants the encounter and wants to use their existing tiles, they also get it. Capstones and all. At a cheaper price, since it has less pieces.

I have enough KS1 that I would have jumped on a DoD equivalent pledge level (albeit cheaper) that was catered to that (just the new structural/bling pieces). Yes, I wouldn't have spent as much as a 3600 DoD backer without the walls, floors etc, but I was never going to get that anyway. It also would have made capstones and SG matter. And pledge level discounts.
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by pacarat » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:51 pm

I have never understood the logic behind artificially limiting the availability of certain pieces. It costs what - roughly $10K a mold? Wouldnt it be more profitable to sell a pack of _all_ the "bling" pieces to any backer who wants one (or two or five or more), and recover more of that $10K?

Set up the "free" SG however you want but give everyone the opportunity to obtain them all outside of SG within pledge levels.

Call it the SG Trove or some such thing.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by dice4hire » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:07 pm

Scope scope scope has been my common complaint for the last 3 kickstarters. I think I and II were fine, but III, IV and now V were too much. I got my 750 , which will likely be 1000 by the end of the PM, but I anticipate no retail sales here. I bought a ton of KSIII retail, will by a tiny amount of castles, but little or no KSV because I am just getting saturated.

And setup time is just increasing by leaps and bounds. Before it was four pieces in a KSI dungeon basically, piles of three of them and a few doors to round stuff out. Now it is 150 different pieces, perhaps 40 of which could be considered core pieces.

I much prefer easy to difficult and a smattering of cool pieces to a smattering of basic pieces and piles of cool pieces. Everyone should get what they want, but this model is very close to losing me as a customer, which would be a shame.
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by artcwolf » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:53 pm

I went back and looked at what i paid for KS1 and 2, and wondered why i didn't do KS3 and 4. Then i looked at the price point that i spent today. It hurt and it hurt a lot and that is why i missed the village and castle. I waited until the last minute to pledge because i was $400 over budget but i wanted the lvl 4 dungeon and a few more add-ons. I kicked around so many items i wanted painted but i couldn't afford it. I honestly feel that the price point was the biggest issue, I know i got a lot more stuff than i did in the first two, but i felt i had to spend more because there was not enough cool stuff for the lower end budget. I can swallow a $600 bill easier than at $1200 bill, it also keeps me off the couch with the wife.

Several others have said it before, the number of sculpts while awesome left me struggling wanting all the cool stuff I enjoyed the simplicity of the first 2 KS i love my dungeon and caverns. If you want to do the extra sculpts maybe do a kickstarter of just the extra stuff like the capstones and inserts, and extra stuff like tables and chairs and treasure piles. I like my secret doors and twists and turns, i'm not a big flash kind of dungeon guy. It felt limiting by having to buy the items as you have built the campaign for yourself.

I went with lvl 4 because i wanted more pools because i only got 1 in KS1 and it's red for the chamber of sorrow. I wanted the puzzle tiles and the vaulted walls. I'm not a big fan of the passages, and a lot of the encounters are focused on them. When i priced out the # of walls and corners and the other pieces to match the lvl 4 it was $300 more. Add in painting and now i'm not just $400 over budget i was close to $1000 over budget. I had to settle with dungeon grey and paint it myself. I'm just now getting the time to paint KS2....

Maybe for the next KS, ask the fans what pieces that really would love to get. I'd love to buy more pools. I need a couple more terrain trays. I like the dungeon features, i think most of us have enough tiles themselves but we're limited on the Pieces of Flare.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by jackattack » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:31 pm

Another issue related to scope. (And the last post, it turns out.)

The more sets DF introduces, the more sets DF will be able to put in the online store, the more sets they will need to stock at the fulfillment center, the more sets they will run out of at the fulfillment center, the more potential customers will want more restock, the more sets DF will have to order between kickstarters at minimum order levels, and so on and so forth.

Unless DF is planning to secure a warehouse, they might want to think hard about how many new sets they introduce at a time, and how they intend to fulfill online purchases for customers who did not have the opportunity or the means to pledge a kickstarter.
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