Price in the webstore

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AnimeSensei
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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by AnimeSensei » Tue May 22, 2018 10:27 am

Talistran wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 8:27 pm
I imagine it is similar to what AnimeSensei does with DF. Buy low, sell below retail... but I think he keeps so much of it he rarely recognizes the profits since he'll never sell :)
There are profits? :P

Yeah, I keep a lot of it. Too much, if you ask my wife. LOL
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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by Talistran » Fri May 18, 2018 10:40 pm

unclebilly wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:39 pm
Best reason to buy during the KS. If not enough is sold it does not get made so the it never hits the store. The more sold during KS the more that will be offered in the store ;)
Yep... one of two GREAT reasons to back the KS instead of buying at retail :)

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by Talistran » Fri May 18, 2018 10:40 pm

GardenDM wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 9:24 pm
Talistran wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 8:27 pm
If you're just buying regular stocks and passively working your money, sure... you're limited to 8-12%. But real estate fixups/flipping, wholesale purchase/internet sales, and buy/sell of items at local sales requires serious cash to sit there until the deal comes along. We've grown our $100 stake in 2006 into over $400,000 in sales last year alone... with 1347 hours of work in the past 12 years. eBay helped quite a bit during those earlier years, buying packs of DDM and selling the singles, but hasn't been good for years and we ventured into other buy/sell areas.

Now we spend less time, doing larger / more lucrative deals.

I do it with firearms accessories, gaming accessories, and art. You just need to develop an expertise and use your cash. I don't buy anything that I can't make 20% on, and often I can pull 50-100% profit. And the only real effort is a few hours here and then checking classifieds and local sales.

I imagine it is similar to what AnimeSensei does with DF. Buy low, sell below retail... but I think he keeps so much of it he rarely recognizes the profits since he'll never sell :)

We pay taxes on it, but many choose not to... work your money.
Personally, I'll keep my "business venture" money separate from my "hobby spending" money and join the KS since I want the guaranteed availability and also to know that I can get my DF fix even if my investment tanks.
As do I. :)

My point is that availability and support are the reasons to back the KS... and that the financial incentive is not "large enough" to be the main draw. It used to be...

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by unclebilly » Fri May 18, 2018 10:39 pm

Best reason to buy during the KS. If not enough is sold it does not get made so the it never hits the store. The more sold during KS the more that will be offered in the store ;)

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by GardenDM » Fri May 18, 2018 9:24 pm

Talistran wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 8:27 pm
If you're just buying regular stocks and passively working your money, sure... you're limited to 8-12%. But real estate fixups/flipping, wholesale purchase/internet sales, and buy/sell of items at local sales requires serious cash to sit there until the deal comes along. We've grown our $100 stake in 2006 into over $400,000 in sales last year alone... with 1347 hours of work in the past 12 years. eBay helped quite a bit during those earlier years, buying packs of DDM and selling the singles, but hasn't been good for years and we ventured into other buy/sell areas.

Now we spend less time, doing larger / more lucrative deals.

I do it with firearms accessories, gaming accessories, and art. You just need to develop an expertise and use your cash. I don't buy anything that I can't make 20% on, and often I can pull 50-100% profit. And the only real effort is a few hours here and then checking classifieds and local sales.

I imagine it is similar to what AnimeSensei does with DF. Buy low, sell below retail... but I think he keeps so much of it he rarely recognizes the profits since he'll never sell :)

We pay taxes on it, but many choose not to... work your money.
Fair enough, although I think it's a stretch to call that "investing" in the traditional sense since your time and labor is involved. More like a business, I think.

And, as with investing in stocks, there is significant risk to your capital. I've made great money reselling popular items...and I have a few boxes of stuff that's harder to sell out in my garage waiting for the opportunity to turn back into cash at a reasonable price...I'd be happy to break even on those. :cry:

Please do PM me if you know of any good opportunities that you're not working right now or that have room for more on the supply side. ;) Most of my best sales were from KS and I've seen fewer and fewer clear value opportunities over the past few years.

Personally, I'll keep my "business venture" money separate from my "hobby spending" money and join the KS since I want the guaranteed availability and also to know that I can get my DF fix even if my investment tanks.

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by Talistran » Fri May 18, 2018 8:27 pm

GardenDM wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 3:00 pm
Talistran wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:45 pm
Rabbit Burner wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:58 am
Random picks showing KS price v Store price and the percentage increase - (shipping not included)

Unpainted
KS Store %
Erinthor Mountains 280 308 10
The Count's Castle 585 639 9
The Royal Stronghold 1500 1625 8

Painted
KS Store %
Erinthor Mountains 385 424 10
The Count's Castle 790 849 7.5
The Royal Stronghold 1950 2090 7

Remember for US customers there is no shipping charge during the KS

So our conclusion is it is still better to buy during the KS - you can also guarantee its in stock too :)

EDIT: you can also rely on the formatting of this post being screwed :(
I would argue that "you can also guarantee its in stock too" is the only sound, legitimate reason you demonstrated in your post for reasons to buy during the kickstarter; there are other good reasons, you just didn't list them.

10% off of retail plus shipping is not a great return on your investment. It is pretty good though. But anyone who is investing thousands into DF could make more money by waiting to buy at retail and investing their capital for the year prior, earning significantly more than 7-10%. But A) they would never be able to get anything they want at retail, they would be limited to the leftovers and B) they wouldn't be supporting the creation of this new product. But financially, it does not make sense to prepay and wait, tying up your funds.

Anyways, it seems to be a good enough reason for many; however, the trend is lower and lower incentives (less % off from retail pricing AND significantly less "stretch goals") for lending our money to DF for a year. I hope this trend does not bite them in the ass, as I really enjoy the product. I personally buy during the kickstarter because of A&B above, but that will not be true of everyone... especially those that believe that 7% is worth paying 15% on their credit cards ;)
I think we're in agreement that the KS has the massive advantage of guaranteeing availability.

I would quibble with your statement that it does not make financial sense to prepay.

Let's be generous and ignore shipping. Where can I find a guaranteed 12-month return equal to or greater than the 10% savings? Since this is money I'll need in a year to buy DF when it hits the store, I'll need to pay taxes on it, likely capital gains.

KS Price: $3000
Store Price: $3300

Investment: $3000
Investment Returns (10%): $300
Taxes: $100 (taxes on gains)

I'm left with $3200 to spend on the equivalent $3300 worth of stuff in the store...if I can get 10% investment returns...otherwise things are even less balanced.

Now...if I'm paying interest on a cc, the whole equation changes, but this is a pay now vs invest and pay later comparison.

Edited a few words to make my point clearer.
If you're just buying regular stocks and passively working your money, sure... you're limited to 8-12%. But real estate fixups/flipping, wholesale purchase/internet sales, and buy/sell of items at local sales requires serious cash to sit there until the deal comes along. We've grown our $100 stake in 2006 into over $400,000 in sales last year alone... with 1347 hours of work in the past 12 years. eBay helped quite a bit during those earlier years, buying packs of DDM and selling the singles, but hasn't been good for years and we ventured into other buy/sell areas.

Now we spend less time, doing larger / more lucrative deals.

I do it with firearms accessories, gaming accessories, and art. You just need to develop an expertise and use your cash. I don't buy anything that I can't make 20% on, and often I can pull 50-100% profit. And the only real effort is a few hours here and then checking classifieds and local sales.

I imagine it is similar to what AnimeSensei does with DF. Buy low, sell below retail... but I think he keeps so much of it he rarely recognizes the profits since he'll never sell :)

We pay taxes on it, but many choose not to... work your money.

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by Rabbit Burner » Fri May 18, 2018 5:41 pm

We are with GDM on this one.

Don't know any guaranteed investment that returns around 10% - certainly not in the UK.

We did not back the first two Kickstarters and believe they probably provided more value if less variety.
For us there is more than enough value in backing the Kickstarter rather than buying retail and there is more value the more you invest and most certainly in painted.

But it is for each backer to decide how much value there is.
Talistran wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:45 pm
I personally buy during the kickstarter because of A&B above, but that will not be true of everyone... especially those that believe that 7% is worth paying 15% on their credit cards ;)
Think that sums it up :)
dice4hire wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 4:47 pm
Those are all high end items. Is it the same for lesser items?
no idea :D

All we did was go to the Wiki for KS prices and then the DF shop for Retail prices, the rest as they say is math - but right now we cant be arsed!
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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by DevGuy » Fri May 18, 2018 5:32 pm

dice4hire wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 4:47 pm
Those are all high end items. Is it the same for lesser items?
Check out the link I provided. Teach a man to fish...

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by dice4hire » Fri May 18, 2018 4:47 pm

Those are all high end items. Is it the same for lesser items?
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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by GardenDM » Fri May 18, 2018 3:00 pm

Talistran wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:45 pm
Rabbit Burner wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:58 am
Random picks showing KS price v Store price and the percentage increase - (shipping not included)

Unpainted
KS Store %
Erinthor Mountains 280 308 10
The Count's Castle 585 639 9
The Royal Stronghold 1500 1625 8

Painted
KS Store %
Erinthor Mountains 385 424 10
The Count's Castle 790 849 7.5
The Royal Stronghold 1950 2090 7

Remember for US customers there is no shipping charge during the KS

So our conclusion is it is still better to buy during the KS - you can also guarantee its in stock too :)

EDIT: you can also rely on the formatting of this post being screwed :(
I would argue that "you can also guarantee its in stock too" is the only sound, legitimate reason you demonstrated in your post for reasons to buy during the kickstarter; there are other good reasons, you just didn't list them.

10% off of retail plus shipping is not a great return on your investment. It is pretty good though. But anyone who is investing thousands into DF could make more money by waiting to buy at retail and investing their capital for the year prior, earning significantly more than 7-10%. But A) they would never be able to get anything they want at retail, they would be limited to the leftovers and B) they wouldn't be supporting the creation of this new product. But financially, it does not make sense to prepay and wait, tying up your funds.

Anyways, it seems to be a good enough reason for many; however, the trend is lower and lower incentives (less % off from retail pricing AND significantly less "stretch goals") for lending our money to DF for a year. I hope this trend does not bite them in the ass, as I really enjoy the product. I personally buy during the kickstarter because of A&B above, but that will not be true of everyone... especially those that believe that 7% is worth paying 15% on their credit cards ;)
I think we're in agreement that the KS has the massive advantage of guaranteeing availability.

I would quibble with your statement that it does not make financial sense to prepay.

Let's be generous and ignore shipping. Where can I find a guaranteed 12-month return equal to or greater than the 10% savings? Since this is money I'll need in a year to buy DF when it hits the store, I'll need to pay taxes on it, likely capital gains.

KS Price: $3000
Store Price: $3300

Investment: $3000
Investment Returns (10%): $300
Taxes: $100 (taxes on gains)

I'm left with $3200 to spend on the equivalent $3300 worth of stuff in the store...if I can get 10% investment returns...otherwise things are even less balanced.

Now...if I'm paying interest on a cc, the whole equation changes, but this is a pay now vs invest and pay later comparison.

Edited a few words to make my point clearer.
Last edited by GardenDM on Fri May 18, 2018 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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