Price in the webstore

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by zenako » Tue May 29, 2018 3:41 pm

A specific challenge I would anticipate if you make the special pieces more ala cart available, is being able to ensure there is sufficient demand to support the costs of making the molds (and masters). With the current scheme they have a better handle on how many units of each design they will need to make fairly early on based on how they have grouped those pieces. For example, lets say they make a special fountain piece that everyone loves and then orders tons of. Making $$ on that one. They also make a special Doorway piece that almost no one wants (for whatever reason). Gonna take a bath on that one, from the NRE on the molds. Too many of those and they are in trouble, and I am sure they don't want to be in the position of having to delete offerings after the KS ends.

A serious limit with KS is what you are pledging is really just N$$$, that you will allocate in the PM later. Since KS does not have a good mechanic for selecting a whole suite of choices to pledge for in a single campaign, this can be a planning issue. (I ended up with three ID's for one campaign years ago in order to actually pledge for the 3 special things we wanted to get. You could only go for a single one on each account.)

So the challenge DF faces is trying to know/anticipate that each design will support the costs of the molds and more, and one way of doing that is including those parts in larger bundles that are easier to predict and plan for. (I do not envy them that exercise either!). So the real issue is probably the KS interface mechanic. I have seen that they have the ability in their own shop to take pre-orders (Mountains, Keeps, etc.) and then know before they commit to production that they have enough volume to make it worthwhile.

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by Swiftbrook » Tue May 29, 2018 10:46 am

William wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 7:35 pm
Very well stated Krysko, I agree except one thing.

'A' single separate pack would cost in the hundreds.
So, I would say a few different packs of the so called 'chase' pieces broken into logical smaller packs. Then I would consider multiples of one or two packs and maybe one or none of the other few. Since KS is a pre-order system, quantities per pack shouldn't matter in the scheme of things. So the combo-molds (steel molds with multiple items within each) need to be designed with consideration of the ''chase piece' packs' along with 'encounters'/ 'add-on packs'/ whatever other breakdown packs/ post production packaging/and/and... it's all a lot to keep in mind when creating these huge KS's. Smaller KS's (size of KS-1^2) would have much less complexity to deal with.
For me, the "Dungeon Bridge" is a chase piece. Luckily it is split off in it's own set so I don't need to purchase the Lava Bridge encounter (or 1 of 3 parts of it) to get the bridge. I also think that the troves and sets like the Dungeon Bridge are good for both consumers and DF. The big spenders will spend. I'm a little spender. DF will get more of my money because I can 'afford' a piece like the bridge when it's separated out.

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by Kryzsko » Tue May 29, 2018 4:22 am

William wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 7:35 pm
Very well stated Krysko, I agree except one thing.

'A' single separate pack would cost in the hundreds.
So, I would say a few different packs of the so called 'chase' pieces broken into logical smaller packs. Then I would consider multiples of one or two packs and maybe one or none of the other few. Since KS is a pre-order system, quantities per pack shouldn't matter in the scheme of things. So the combo-molds (steel molds with multiple items within each) need to be designed with consideration of the ''chase piece' packs' along with 'encounters'/ 'add-on packs'/ whatever other breakdown packs/ post production packaging/and/and... it's all a lot to keep in mind when creating these huge KS's. Smaller KS's (size of KS-1^2) would have much less complexity to deal with.
Ya, it would not need to be one pack. They could be broken into what ever size packs work best. I loved the small theme packs from KS4 so packs that size would be great.

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by dice4hire » Tue May 29, 2018 12:44 am

In the end, we all want DF to stay in business and be successful!!!

...so thank you to all the resin people who helped until KSI when I started trying to do my part!!!
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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by Harneloot » Mon May 28, 2018 11:14 pm

Well, it is all interesting speculation and informed opinion, but I still say there are factors involved that influence the decisions DF makes in how they organize and run their KS that none of us are privy to. It would be nice, I guess, to have every single piece DF ever made or will make available a la carte, but that might be real great for consumers and not nearly as great for DF. (And I suspect would make for a much duller KS ;) )

In the end I trust in DF and enjoy what I can buy of what they make - even though I can't get everything - and hope they can keep on keepin on for as long as possible :D

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by William » Mon May 28, 2018 7:35 pm

Very well stated Krysko, I agree except one thing.

'A' single separate pack would cost in the hundreds.
So, I would say a few different packs of the so called 'chase' pieces broken into logical smaller packs. Then I would consider multiples of one or two packs and maybe one or none of the other few. Since KS is a pre-order system, quantities per pack shouldn't matter in the scheme of things. So the combo-molds (steel molds with multiple items within each) need to be designed with consideration of the ''chase piece' packs' along with 'encounters'/ 'add-on packs'/ whatever other breakdown packs/ post production packaging/and/and... it's all a lot to keep in mind when creating these huge KS's. Smaller KS's (size of KS-1^2) would have much less complexity to deal with.
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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by dice4hire » Mon May 28, 2018 7:28 pm

"Is having chase pieces a customer friendly practice?"
An excellent question and I also think it is not good for the customer or DF. If DF thinks they are the way to sell certain sets, like the Mega packs, then I can see the point. Yes, it is nice to get a special piece for getting a lot of one sub-theme...

as long as they are not monster sewers giant rats

...but when the numbers get too high is is impossible for most (90%+ of DF customers) to get all of them. That can be frustrating.

DF did try to make getting oddball pieces easier with the Troves in KSV, and I appreciate that.

As far as the effects of KSV chase pieces, I cannot see how anyone, even DF can know how they work as KSV has not hit retail yet. It will be interesting to see how many people get a set for the Chase, even if they do not really want a lot o the other pieces. I really want that two-headed crocodile and I may end up getting the encounter for it. Every time I see the Imperial streets and that Lion I get tempted, though I do not need all those streets. For sure!!!

It will be interesting to see.
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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by Kryzsko » Mon May 28, 2018 7:10 pm

I think the question of "Does having chase pieces increase pledges?" is the wrong question. The problem with that question is we have no data either way. KS1 and 2 did well without chase pieces. KS5 was the first dwarven forge KS to use chase pieces in a big way and we have no way of knowing if they had a major impact one way or the other. My personal guess is they neither helped nor hurt but who knows?

The better question is "Is having chase pieces a customer friendly practice?" I personally don't feel it is. I think there are only a few customer types that like chase pieces. The first are people who have tons of money and tons of storage space and plan to go all in any way. The other is Ebay resellers who want to break out the rare pieces and charge a big markup.

Who is punished the most by chase pieces? The first is longtime Dwarven Forge collectors. People who have bought a TON of Dwarven Forge products over the years and don't need an entire Dungeon of Doom but would like to be able to get all the cool new pieces. The second group is new collectors that don't have thousands of dollars to spend but would like to get all the little fun pieces.

I don't think this compares to pre-order bonuses. Everyone in the KS is already pre-ordering and most to the tune of hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Also to get the pre-order bonus you had to spend a few hundred dollars but to get all the painted KS5 chase pieces you needed to spend $3600. That is out of the realm of possibility for most people.

I am glad to hear that this does not sound like it will be the case in KS6.

Oh, and I did get a whole DoD in KS5 and was in no way influenced by the chase pieces. If the chase pieces would have been available in a separate pack it would have made no difference to me.

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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by dice4hire » Mon May 28, 2018 6:05 pm

Law wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 7:22 am
This whole convo is kinda moot bc DF has made it clear that they won't be limiting the cool bling pieces to mega sets this time around. So -- yay, problem solved!
I really hope for this, but DF's track record on doing this is not very good.
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Re: Price in the webstore

Post by William » Mon May 28, 2018 5:49 pm

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:50 pm
The two headed croc from the KSIII grab bag which they made available in KSV for example.
Available yes, but the only way is the ($129 UnP./$177P.) Encounter full of 28 new passage pieces that I don't want.
I know I could resell those pieces, but I've never tried selling anything. Plus at the time I was very low on expendable cash, so I barely even spent that much in total. (my problem, not any others)

I hope the new KS does some of this type thing a bit better. Break out packs of not only the new pieces, but packs that group similar new pieces from a few encounters that make sense together. Why not have a (or few) small Miniature pack(s) of the minis that are only included in the Encounters?
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