Consolidated Module Feedback

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Rabbit Burner
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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by Rabbit Burner » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:01 am

Alphastream wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:29 pm
AnimeSensei wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:46 pm
B - Players have had a lot of fun so far and have commented more than a few times how trippy it is to actually have the terrain match the descriptions 100%. They have commented on the unforgiving nature of the module so far.
That's great to hear! I worked on the adventure and decided to check on the forums and see if there was any feedback. I'll likely be involved in the next project, so constructive feedback is always appreciated.

One of the things that was really unique about this project was the need to bring so many cool aspects of the decor to life - because the DF terrain is so cool and deserves that - but without making the text too cumbersome to read and the adventure to busy.

The adventure is designed to be harder than usual (it is the Dungeon of Doom, after all). However, you can change that to suit your taste by scaling down (assuming you are running at a level above 1). For example, if you are running a party with an average level of 8, you can run the monsters for level 6 or 7 or even lower. You can also periodically run the trap damage at a lower tier, or remove a die of damage if already at the lowest tier.
Sounds like you managed all that :)

Great job Alphastream and welcome to the forum for dwarvenite, humans, addiction, rabbits, weasels, robots (who knew), dice, master dungeon builders, purveyors of tabletop fun, Ents, wizards and RPG module writers.
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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by Alphastream » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:29 pm

AnimeSensei wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:46 pm
B - Players have had a lot of fun so far and have commented more than a few times how trippy it is to actually have the terrain match the descriptions 100%. They have commented on the unforgiving nature of the module so far.
That's great to hear! I worked on the adventure and decided to check on the forums and see if there was any feedback. I'll likely be involved in the next project, so constructive feedback is always appreciated.

One of the things that was really unique about this project was the need to bring so many cool aspects of the decor to life - because the DF terrain is so cool and deserves that - but without making the text too cumbersome to read and the adventure to busy.

The adventure is designed to be harder than usual (it is the Dungeon of Doom, after all). However, you can change that to suit your taste by scaling down (assuming you are running at a level above 1). For example, if you are running a party with an average level of 8, you can run the monsters for level 6 or 7 or even lower. You can also periodically run the trap damage at a lower tier, or remove a die of damage if already at the lowest tier.
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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by dice4hire » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:07 pm

Trying to match maps to DF is a nightmare in most cases. It will be interesting to see it all done for you.
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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by AnimeSensei » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:46 pm

nielsene wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:13 pm
AnimeSensei wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:24 am
I have some players playing through it; they are in the middle of the Lever Chamber currently.
How's it going?

A) How easy has it been to setup (were you set up before/after the exploded build guides came out?)? How easy has it been to run? Page flipping mid scenario? Did you run from print outs or from on-screen? How did you handle the player handouts?

B) How much fun have your players had? Where has the terrain/design/usage elicited surprise/dread/excitement among your players? What is your player base like -- how has it matched to the design of the module? (I feel modules for most of the newer rule systems tend to be more forgiving than modules for older rule systems, DoD has an older-rule system vibe to me, which might catch players used to PF/4e/5e off-guard.)

C) Any other observations on how a modules designed to show-case terrain differs from those where we have to massage the map & terrain to fit when sources assume 0 thickness walls or a full spectrum of curves/angles/cutouts?
A - I used the setup guides. I haven't got to player handouts yet; they only have made it to the Lever Chamber so far. Running is isn't too bad; I have stuff printed out and highlighted.

B - Players have had a lot of fun so far and have commented more than a few times how trippy it is to actually have the terrain match the descriptions 100%. They have commented on the unforgiving nature of the module so far.

C - Nope, it plays the same for me. I'm not a stickler for making rooms match 100% if I'm running a non-DF module.
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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by nielsene » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:13 pm

AnimeSensei wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:24 am
I have some players playing through it; they are in the middle of the Lever Chamber currently.
How's it going?

A) How easy has it been to setup (were you set up before/after the exploded build guides came out?)? How easy has it been to run? Page flipping mid scenario? Did you run from print outs or from on-screen? How did you handle the player handouts?

B) How much fun have your players had? Where has the terrain/design/usage elicited surprise/dread/excitement among your players? What is your player base like -- how has it matched to the design of the module? (I feel modules for most of the newer rule systems tend to be more forgiving than modules for older rule systems, DoD has an older-rule system vibe to me, which might catch players used to PF/4e/5e off-guard.)

C) Any other observations on how a modules designed to show-case terrain differs from those where we have to massage the map & terrain to fit when sources assume 0 thickness walls or a full spectrum of curves/angles/cutouts?

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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by AnimeSensei » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:24 am

I have some players playing through it; they are in the middle of the Lever Chamber currently.
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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by nielsene » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:15 pm

Oh also, you'll (DF) probably want to post some web-page with a semi-standard copyright release? allowance? I forget the right term, to allow people to have a chance of success at having their copy printed at professional printing shops. Many shops are likely to still reject it, liability is just too great, and the document is so polished/large.

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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by kitenerd » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:22 pm

These are very thoughtful comments

I completely agree about PDF's - If there is NOT an intention to publish in print then PLEASE take advantage of the PDF and "bloat" the module a bit - keep stat blocks in one column or at least on one page - for that matter start encounters at the beginning of a page so we can avoid the flipping that invariably leads to forgetting a trap, or clue or bit of treasure

I am a good GM, but have a poor memory - having modules well organized makes my life so much better

These are general comments - not DoD specific (i have glanced through but not taken the time to read, let alone prep the module) - mostly these are gripes that go back to PFS (where all modules were PDF only), Paizo's adherence to print publishing formats made those modules difficult to run with minimal prep (and that is kinda the point of PFS)

Bookbinding is awesome - i look forward to seeing the results of your efforts!
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Re: Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by unclebilly » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:10 pm

Yea I am also waiting to see what the PF one looks like. I would rely like to get a professional printed copy of it once it is released for PF.

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Consolidated Module Feedback

Post by nielsene » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:40 pm

I didn't see a feedback thread on the previewed version of the DoD module, and wanted to leave some feedback. Hope this is a useful place.

1) Its absolutely gorgeous. The artistic value is through the roof for such things. And the game design sounds fun (haven't had a chance to play it yet to say more than just "sounds").

2) The recently added build guide is extremely helpful. At the full release, is this expected to be another file or folded in to the module PDF? (Either as an appendix, or broken out in-line as each encounter is dealt with)

3) I would love to see what the PF appendix looks like. Will it be equally graphical? or just raw text?

4) Regarding player handouts, I think you'll want to think a bit more about how to integrate them into the document. As they are now, they fall scattered throughout the document, where it makes sense for page layout reasons/GM narrative. Not where they make sense for quickly printing a set of handouts. Given that its "only" a PDF and you don't need to worry about page counts/etc. I'd suggest repeating the complete set of handouts as another appendix or separate PDF file.

5) Check the pagination, somewhere around Encounter 3 the even/odd pages flip their left/right justification of page number for a few pages. I suspect a page was removed? I see it happening a couple more times. Center justification might be simpler to avoid last minute problems as other stuff changes. (Even if its a bit more intrusive into the layout of the two page spreads).

Two pieces of more minor feedback following is from the perspective of someone who has been learning bookbinding and is excitedly planning how to apply my new hobby to making an awesome, I hope, set of bound volume(s) from this module. So I'm looking at things like how chapters are broken up, in case, the volume grows larger than I can realistic home bind, when printed on paper that can support the full color illustrations (heavier weight that commercially printed books would use). So this feedback might be too special purpose for general use, feel free to ignore if it doesn't help other use cases :)

6) Possibly? consider moving all the "New Monsters" to a consolidated appendix. (One of my pet peeves in modules is having to flip around a lot when running them. I'd love to print this out multiple volumes (Narrative Adventure, Build Guide + Monsters + PF Appendix + Handouts). Yes I'd need two volumes open at a time, but unlikely to need to flip through either and lose my place(even with adding ribbon bookmarks). The page re-arrangement I can do on my own, but of course the page numbers get out of whack.

7) I had some concerns over the two-page encounter spread intros (only the intros not interior pages of the encounter). But I think I've convinced myself I can work around the issue if it comes up. (ie if I need to split the body of the module into two chunks/volumes, I can manually insert a pair of blank pages to avoid having chapters 'leak' across the volumes.

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