3D files of unreleased models?

Luxspew
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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by Luxspew » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:42 pm

Vegomatic wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:22 am
Let me preface this with the fact that i am a fan of Dwarven Forge and just a member of the forum at large. I have no connection to Dwarven Forge except as a customer and and collector. If you want to to talk business with them, the forum is not the appropriate avenue to do so. There are email addresses on the site that allow you to communicate directly with them. That being said...

I have backed a few Printable Scenery kickstarters in the past. Doesn't Matt already have full lines of dungeon and cavern tiles for sale on his site, not to mention castles and more? Why would he want/need Dwarven Forge?

The argument that a set, like Royal Stronghold, is not being made any more is an empty claim in this argument. There are no pieces unique to that set and as you mentioned you can build it from other sets. How is a collection of .stl files any different? You still only get what you print... and with current home printing speeds... it will take a long while to print an entire Royal Stronghold.

Of COURSE you would be willing to pay the painted full set price for the .stl files of a Royal Stronghold. That would give you the ability to print almost every piece/set in the entire Castle Builder line of products... as well as a good bit of the stone City Builder pieces.

Clearly a whole restructuring of the pricing model would be necessary. I believe going the route of .stl files would be more advantageous in small sets rather than in large collections. So your Royal Stronghold would still have to be pieced together.

There is something magical about Dwarven Forge products. It is not just the look and artistry, but the feel. That feel is completely lost with 3D printing.

Anyway... it just seems it would be a losing proposition for them to go that route at this time. Times change as do the people and the technologies in use... there will come a time when digitizing sets will be worthy of consideration. I don't think it is now.
Literally everything you say here is just to read yourself talk so I'll break it down for you

The forums is a place of community where you bring your ideas to see what people say, and you guys defo pasted that test LOL

If I spent $2000+ I better be able to make a full castle. Instead of me taking my family out to a theme park to hang out im trying to bring them to the table and spending $2000 on anything is a bit much and that's what you are spending when buying the Royal Castle.

What I do with my time is none of your business so why does it matter what a print time could or couldn't be? I'm asking you for files, who cares what I do with my time after? I print fast enough to not care and it sounds like you still don't know what you're talking about. This was a part of that elitist comment I made earlier.

I get the hint and it's fine lol

I still love Stefan and his team and their products. From everything THE MAN has said himself I just got a different feeling of mindset with his fanbase but I see I was mistaken.

I just didnt want to see the STL files be built wrong and was suggesting to talk to Matt.

I talked to Matt or else I wouldnt have even tried to suggest it here to begin with.


and I feel I need to say this again but I never wanted to suggest taking away dwarvenite! I just think they could do both...


Anyways, again, thanks for your time! figured I'd stir the pot a little and it seems I did just that ;)


CHEERS! and happy gaming.

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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by AnimeSensei » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:19 am

Luxspew, we are quite an interesting group, aren't we? :)

I think you have some good ideas, but I think when you say "Most people, like me, would just use these files to print out our own designs, then I can paint it myself." you are generalizing. I know more people that would want an out-of-the-box product ready to go rather than having to print and paint the pieces, so I would argue against that from my viewpoint. I may be wrong. This is a market research job for DF to determine. We have a forumite here (Oldent) who tries his HARDEST to show us how easy it is to craft terrain, make this, paint that, etc. and we go kicking and screaming because many of us don't want to put the effort in the crafting side. We just want a finished product. While this could work with a printer/retailer that could print and paint STL files, at that point, why not just buy from the DF store?

Again, I think your idea has merit, but I think DF's niche is slightly different than Matt's. Each company finds its customer base, and you appear to be Printable Scenery's base. Unfortunately sometimes companies just are in different segments to fill different needs. Should DF decide to do STL files in the future, I'll look into it for sure. But at this time, I know I like how it is because I don't have a 3D printer and with small kids, don't have time to paint a whole dungeon/castle/cavern. I also like how durable dwarvenite is compared to 3D printed stuff which can snap.

Great suggestions though! I hope you stick around on the forums and we haven't scared you off. :) Please check out the caverns kickstarter in June!
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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by Vegomatic » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:22 am

Let me preface this with the fact that i am a fan of Dwarven Forge and just a member of the forum at large. I have no connection to Dwarven Forge except as a customer and and collector. If you want to to talk business with them, the forum is not the appropriate avenue to do so. There are email addresses on the site that allow you to communicate directly with them. That being said...

I have backed a few Printable Scenery kickstarters in the past. Doesn't Matt already have full lines of dungeon and cavern tiles for sale on his site, not to mention castles and more? Why would he want/need Dwarven Forge?

The argument that a set, like Royal Stronghold, is not being made any more is an empty claim in this argument. There are no pieces unique to that set and as you mentioned you can build it from other sets. How is a collection of .stl files any different? You still only get what you print... and with current home printing speeds... it will take a long while to print an entire Royal Stronghold.

Of COURSE you would be willing to pay the painted full set price for the .stl files of a Royal Stronghold. That would give you the ability to print almost every piece/set in the entire Castle Builder line of products... as well as a good bit of the stone City Builder pieces.

Clearly a whole restructuring of the pricing model would be necessary. I believe going the route of .stl files would be more advantageous in small sets rather than in large collections. So your Royal Stronghold would still have to be pieced together.

There is something magical about Dwarven Forge products. It is not just the look and artistry, but the feel. That feel is completely lost with 3D printing.

Anyway... it just seems it would be a losing proposition for them to go that route at this time. Times change as do the people and the technologies in use... there will come a time when digitizing sets will be worthy of consideration. I don't think it is now.

Luxspew
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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by Luxspew » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:05 am

Harneloot wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:31 pm
So, selling the *rights* to their artwork via files you can print yourself is somehow better than keeping your craft under your own control? Also, the latest KS by Dwarven Forge made of 3 million - what are you talking about going bankrupt? There is almost nothing that was released in the past 4 KS that you cannot buy RIGHT NOW in the web-store, so, if you want something Dwarven Forge has made, just buy some ;)

And I also don't like your statement that Stefan and DF is loosing the *soul of their product* by having their product manufactured in China. What exactly are you implying?
I apologize I feel I should start from the beginning

I'm not sure what you are talking about selling the "rights".. the legality(s) of the situation is easy stuff. People can't just buy the STL files then print it as their own for someone else...if they did they could be taken to court. the STL files can be locked so that you can only scale it. Heck he can even put "DF" or even Dwarven Forge(d) on the bottom of it. You can get certified people to print these for you in the US of A and other places around the world that would then give you royals for selling to others and such... I didnt really want to get into the fine print about legalities but I can if you guys are unsure about losing your product.

I'm definitely not trying to offend or tell someone how to run their business but Stefan himself has asked people to bring their ideas about how to get his stuff out there. Here is a video right after Dwarvenite came out and at the end he says he always is open to ideas and is calling upon people to reach out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAVrEvyFx3c

I'm not saying sets aren't available on the website now but as I have said, Some sets are retired and so it's unfortunate. What you sell on the website IS being resold on ebay x 2+ or more than normal price from your site. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dwarven-Forge- ... ?_trkparms

I'm not here to argue and I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I'm just stating facts. Here is the last kickstarter page I was referring too with 1,688 backers pledged $1,781,736 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dw ... in-for-gam

and can't seem to find the video of him saying what happens if he didn't hit 2million.. but I'll post it when I do.

Matt over at printable scenery knows all the Legalities and such and he can help mirco stamp your stuff.. Anyways everything I've seen prior to me posting was peoples ideas on how to start producing such a thing and here I am just pointing you in the direction with someone who can do it all for you and you still keep your product... though then that is where my suggestion comes in that you guys should just join forces and make brain babies with ideas and such... adapting pieces to be able to use the OpenLOCK system he has would be so cool!

but some of you guys hint that I speak of Blasphemy so I'll back off!

I DO NOT WANT YOU TO STOP YOUR CRAFT!! never stop doing it and I never wanted to suggest to only go STL and not sell dwarvenite. I'm sure people will always buy such awesome pieces as they stand currently

Most people, like me, would just use these files to print out our own designs, then I can paint it myself. As I have said before, me as a customer coming to you. I would pay you for a Full set that is painted and for the sake of argument let's just say the Count's Castle for example

I pay you $850 for the painted Count's keep's STL files. Which anyone else gets, when buying the castle, 181 pieces of detailed-ness painted glory and I just get the 1 file per piece that I then would need to print x50 of whatever...

I'd like to build a full town but some pieces are hard to find and break the bank.

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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by dice4hire » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:31 am

Why wait to lord it over someone????? Lording it over others is living for the day, indeed, as tech/fads/hobbies etc changes so quickly.
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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by Rabbit Burner » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:27 am

For us its down to quality and a few issues aside DF's name is made on the quality of the pieces you put on your table.

With STL you are surrendering that regardless of what system you are compatible with.

As a backer of a few STL Kickstarters we were thinking what a massive money spinner it is, if you get the right market. Because once you have made the STL file the only overhead you have is the online shop to sell them! no production costs, no shipping, easy money.

But as geekjeff has pointed out you cant get a 3D printer to use Dwarvenite or make prepainted pieces and for us you just cannot guarantee the quality.

If DF were to sell STL prints, people can produce poor quality prints and call them Genuine DF - no thanks.

3D printers are not going to go away and are only going to get better, but for the foreseeable future we want high quality prepainted terrain made from Dwarvenite. Whilst we are obviously are paying a premium, it is worth paying as it saves time, worry and heartache that can be associated with home 3D printing.

And the collector in us says keep it real and in many years we can say we got genuine DF Dwarvenite, we can go on about how much better it was in the old days when you bought a physical product genuinely made in China and lord it over the 3D printers and their new fangled prints - oh those halcyon days :)
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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by dice4hire » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:25 am

I am not really ready for 3D printing, as I live in Japan and it is really pre-infancy here. I generally get enough from DF and a few other resin and plastic kickstarters.
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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by AnimeSensei » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:34 pm

I've been thinking on it, and there is one area I would love to see DF do with 3D printing: Unique pieces (ie: people only need one or two) that are unrealistic to produce in dwarvenite. Look at the lava bridge; I think that's about at the tip-top of cost-per-piece due to the size, material cost, number of casts, etc. Anything more specialized than that I could accept DF doing a STL file of as it become a potential loss if they decide to print it. However it would only be available "unpainted" of course. It's a highly specific niche. A good example of something the could be a candidate are the siege weapons. They are cool but were EXPENSIVE. Or something highly specialized like a carousel, gazebo, or gallows. The problem is, these niches are already being done by other companies, so I feel the need is already being filled in the 3D printed realm. I'm fine buying my terrain from DF and my unique accessories from other sources. I wish I could get more in dwarvenite, honestly, but I understand why I can't with the cost for molds.
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Luxspew
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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by Luxspew » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:16 pm

Rhizom wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:29 pm
Luxspew wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:11 pm
if you aren't around to get some of these products when they are around then you are S.O.L. and then it becomes an elitist group type thing.
Well, there is an online shop, isn't it? I just ordered some stuff and it went quite smootly. And I live in Germany, so quite far away from "around". Hence, I do not see any problem with "not being around".

Just go on like you do, DF, we all love you for the your real life products!
I wish to respond fully to all the other comments prior to this one but I wish to make a short response to this first..

You guys are absolutely correct in that there is a website that you can order from it but there are sets that are not being produced anymore that you guys have created in the past. A fine example of this is the Royal castle. I could make a castle similar to the one that you guys provided for your kickstarter's but it's not the set that was sold it's one I put together.. Now you do have some left but once that limited amount of sets has been sold, there won't ever be any more created and that is sad.

I will have a full response for you later and I'm not trying to argue, I just wish to clarify a couple things.

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Re: 3D files of unreleased models?

Post by AnimeSensei » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:05 pm

Luxspew,

I think you have great ideas, but I think like Jeff said, there are things that DF specializes in that you just can't do with STL files. You can't print in dwarvenite and you can't (cheaply) print in a prepainted (or color printed I guess) format. Also, some of the old sets have water features or other translucent/shiny bits that can't be currently replicated via 3D printing. I think it's an option for DF in the future, but at this time it's not their cup of tea. I can see it happening at a later date, however, should market saturation hit for their current fanbase. It's easier to store STL files than thousands of pieces of DF. :)

BTW, I love Printable Scenery. I think they have a great fanbase and product.
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