Pledge Decision Paralysis

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Calsial
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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by Calsial » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:21 pm

I'd like to start by thanking all of you for your comments. I must say the advice here and on the other thread about the $200 budget have been very helpful at figuring things out.

I think I kinda always knew I wanted to get 2-3 cavern starters, but much of the feeling of being overwhelmed is more that I haven't seen any caverns pieces in hand, and I get the distinct feeling that had I done KS2, I would have been happy with buying 5 or so sets at that time, and this KS would be instead looking at details and features to enhance those caverns. My only experience with a Dwarven Forge KS was last year, and I was very nervous about my final pledge, but I saw huge value in it, even if I didn't understand how all the pieces would work together (I pledged Dungeon level IV + Menagerie, if I recall).

For KS V, I pledged and received a number of encounters, many of which much like this KS I was lukewarm about, and other elements that I thought were pointless, but wanted to see how everything would work together. Basically I decided I was a newbie and decided to trust the system. That worked out great for me, I got very good value in my opinion for the sets, and while I was correct about my favourite set, Eldritch Pools which remained my favourite, sets I was kinda feeling meh towards were sleeper hits for me, such as the Gorgon Tiers and Deadly Corners. My second favourite on the other hand will likely not be run as the encounter, as it wasn't as good as I had thought (Menagerie). I invested in the terrain trays and really like them for negative space builds, elevation and even as my own advanced city builder as I use them for taverns, keeps, gatehouses and even have a design being prepared for an upcoming game as a multi level ziggurat that stands in the middle of a imperial city square.

Much of my trouble here is I'm having a hard time figuring out the trifeca pieces, and similar new caverns pieces. The forests are easy enough as I get an idea of more or less the footprint of a forest on the table I want and then pledge for enough variety to make it interesting and flexible. Another issue may be that as some in these forums have pointed out, I'm oldschool AD&D 2.5E, to me caverns are mostly tight passages with the odd open areas. What draws me to the mushroom grotto most is wanting to recreate Netherlight Grove from Out of the Abyss, as some of the concept art I have looked through for that area of the underdark is amazing.

I'm also surprised and frankly a bit disappointed that some of the really classic reasons I wanted caverns was for themes that do not exist in this KS. For example my PCs often need to go into mines, and eventually I wanted them to visit a dragon's lair. While confident, I could design memorable builds even with just standard pieces for both those settings, I'm very surprised we didn't get dwarven miners, mining equipment, cavern posts, hanging lanterns etc. and even more surprised that the closest we got to a dragon's lair is the Ice Catacomb.

I think I'm at peace with not being able to get everything, however I worry that I have no real sample of caverns so I have a massive fear of missing out on amazing pieces because I didn't understand them, thus why I'm struggling so much with a whether or not to do an Adventure Essentials 1-9 or 1-11.

I hope this makes sense, and best of luck in choosing in the end to others like me!

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kitenerd
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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by kitenerd » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:12 pm

Calsial wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:20 pm
my favorite encounters are pure caverns; the mushroom grotto and crystal caverns. Dissecting specifics that I want, feels inefficient for capturing value from the KS and doing the targeted tends to make me fail the stunned and paralyzed save yet again!
Good news is Mushroom Grotto is a great selection of pieces. Crystal Caverns has the potential to be split if you go ala carte (already getting the LED Wall pack, get one each of the Walls & Corners and Epic Elements and then decide if you want Core or not) freeing up a lot of money for use elsewhere

Unless you have money to spare or intend to sell off (and will you actually? or are you just rationalizing an overbuy?) i would not try to "Capture Value" from the KS - i would choose what you want most and be happy with what you get
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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by Tenbears » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:13 pm

Calsial I got a bit, ok a LOT, off track with my post in thread and for that I apologize. I think though that in the last 2 months I'm starting to learn a lot about Dwarven Forge KS's and their retail storefront limitations and I am also starting to learn something that should be obvious, but for some reason is not. That being, I can't get it all.

95% of us are definitely not in a position to get everything we want from these kickstarters, and as they have gotten progressively bigger and bigger with more and more stuff you have no chance to do so. It's been quite maddening for me as I am fully aware that if you do not pick up what interests you the most now, it may be a full year or more (or maybe at all) due to limitations of the DF retail store. That being said, I've been furiously busy in the final days figuring out my pledge and have came to the conclusion that whether or not you have $500 or $5000, you likely will not get everything you want. I have probably switched my pledge at least 5x back and forth between heavy trees to heavy caverns. I'm in the same boat right now as you - my logical brain keeps saying get the full DCD pledge because its 700 dollars of savings! I'm starting to see though that I'm getting hung up on the the 5 pound bag of M&Ms because it's a great price per pound. In the end though, do I really need 5 pounds of M&Ms? Are those savings going to be sitting on a shelf gathering dust because what I really should have gotten was a 1/4 pound bag of them and a package of Twix bars - but ran out of money to buy the Twix?

So, what to do? Make sure that you buy what excites YOU the most and not what your friends say, or to some degree even what people on these forums say. Also, make sure you take into account painted versus unpainted matching as it can be a personal pet peave if you paint things on your own and then later due to the store not stocking unpainted (which they don't seem as excited about doing) open a factory set that clearly does not match your personally painted pieces. This could/will definitely be an issue with dreadhollow forest. It may not be an issue for you, but it definitely is something to consider because the factory is not using the same pakorny paint lines that most of us are.

Good luck to you in the final days of decision making!

Ten

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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by Rabbit Burner » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:08 am

Calsial our advice would be get what wows you.

Ultimately if you find that you need more cavern pieces you should be able to get them from the store either KSII or KSVI and you will have a much better idea of exactly what you need.

Or go light, get a starter set or two and a smaller encounter you like and see how you like them/use them and compliment from the store as required.

That gives you potentially more funds for forests :)
Or to get a selection of KSII caverns to compliment your KSVI caverns.

We believe that you want to be excited as June approaches and totally 'WoWed' when unboxing.

We do agree with Redcap (welcome :)) and K-nerd forests will be very cool and popular, our pledge is almost all forests.
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kitenerd
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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by kitenerd » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:10 pm

Redcap wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:23 pm
Go forests if you are really into them. I think they will be harder to get in the long run. You will always be able to get cavern sets online once the kickstarter resolves itself. Those are my 2 cents.
Welcome Redcap!

I think Forests are going to be VERY popular so i suspect they will be available as well as expanded upon
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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by Tenbears » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:55 pm

After much waffling I went harder into caverns for now and added in a few of the items for forest that I think will be harder to get come next summer (forest banks, scatter terrain, and forest terrain trays). I don't have any KS2 Caverns and to be honest I think the molding for the new KS6 just seems more detailed. I will add in a few of the elevation sets later from KS2 for a little diversity.

I also created a couple pledges where I could compare the number of pieces for some of my favorite cavern pieces. Option number one was DCD pledge (the one I am going with) and the other was the Caverns Deep pledge + an extra set of DHF and other select add-ons. Observations of items that I am particularly interested in when comparing these two pledges are that DCD has:

2x as many 2x1 Cave Cliff blocks
13 versus 6 45 degree passage pieces
4 versus 2 dead ends
7 versus 2 straight passages
7 versus 4 widening passages
85! versus 55 stalagmites
Floor, 1x2 - Unpainted 31 vs 15
Floor, Flat - Unpainted 72 vs 39
Floor, Stagnant Puddle - Unpainted 24 vs 13
Floor, 6x6 - Unpainted 3 vs1
Trifecta Corner Ledge - Unpainted 14 vs 9
Trifecta Corner Wall - Unpainted 14 vs 8
Trifecta Large Curve Ledge - Unpainted 12 vs 9
Trifecta Large Curve Wall - Unpainted 15 vs 10
Trifecta Ledge Wedge - Unpainted 17 vs 13
Trifecta Long Swell Ledge Right - Unpainted 5 vs 3
Trifecta Long Swell Wall Right - Unpainted 9 vs 7
Trifecta Right Angle Ledge - Unpainted 10 vs 6
Trifecta Right Angle Wall - Unpainted 9 vs 5
Trifecta Straight Ledge - Unpainted 18 vs 12
Trifecta Straight Wall - Unpainted 21 vs 15
Trifecta Swell Ledge Left - Unpainted 23 vs 12
Trifecta Swell Wall Left - Unpainted 20 vs 11
Wall Insert, Plain Cave - Unpainted 4 vs 2
Wall Insert, Secret Door - Unpainted 5 vs 5
Wall, Crystal (with LED) - Unpainted 4 vs 4
Wall, Diagonal - Unpainted 27 vs 14
Wall, Rising Left - Unpainted 10 vs 4
Wall, Rising Right - Unpainted 12 vs 6
Wall, Straight - Unpainted 22 vs 9
Wall, Straight 1x1 - Unpainted 21 vs 9
Wall, Swell Right - Unpainted 13 vs 4

It would seem that for my situation I think think I will go with the DCD pledge and pick up a second set of DHF next summer and skirt KS2 almost entirely. If I can get my hands on a another DHF set next summer (which I dont think will be a problem) I end up getting both my cake and ice cream. I will have to wait a few months though after my KS delivery to get there. Realistically I am not going to be anywhere near finished painting my KS VI delivery of pieces in that two month window - so all will be well.

As for the store, I don't see getting another DHF set as a problem because this IS going to be a runaway hit for DF. I do think that scatter terrain and banks WILL be hard to get as I think they will be hot add-on items. That being said I went ahead and added those now to my pledge along with a couple sets of forest terrain trays.

Price per piece for DCD vs CD w/ additional forest pieces for a second DFH is about 3 bucks per piece versus 3.5 a piece. Total cost of the DCD route versus CD route was roughly the same except the DCD option hauls in around 300 more pieces. Most of you are right in that I don't see using every single piece at once -- but I could want a cave heavy floor build where I need more floor tiles, or twisty passage pieces, or an indoor/outdoor with more trifecta pieces. It really gives me a lot of versatility in my builds that will be super nice.

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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by Redcap » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:23 pm

Go forests if you are really into them. I think they will be harder to get in the long run. You will always be able to get cavern sets online once the kickstarter resolves itself. Those are my 2 cents.

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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by Harneloot » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:12 pm

Good advice all around, especially to find one or two encounters that you like all (or most) of the parts of and go that direction. I also strongly agree with D4H that getting some KS2 caverns from the web store to supplement will be a great addition to whatever you get.

Also, once you get the pieces in hand (whatever you end up getting), you will find you self wanting more - I am willing to bet on it :)

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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by zenako » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:29 pm

What I did for caverns was get the Starter Pack and then the couple of specific encounters I wanted a lot of the content of - Ruins, Gorge and Cove. I then grabbed a couple of small packs (floor, and a couple bling bits) to fill out that side of my pledge. I view the ruins, Gorge and Cove sets are being somewhat versatile and working for outside encounters just as well as a cavern.

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Re: Pledge Decision Paralysis

Post by dice4hire » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:14 pm

I agree it is hard to get caverns just from this KS. It really is an addition to KS2, the original caverns.

It might be a good idea to check out the store here, as caverns recently restocked. Some basic KS2 pieces and some unusual ones from the newest KS might be the way to go.
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