Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by GODofwar » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:00 am

A quick redip of my oar.

1. I think DwF needs to keep Encounters, but as a focal point of the KS selling structure, NOT the driver of the product design process.

2. I was trying to point out what I think may be a procedure which affects the design process early on, not trying to kill Encounters.

3. My thought, perhaps more clearly expressed, is that if DwF starts by verbally gaming out good encounters and then designs pieces to build them, they MAY be mentally blocked from considering the new KS as a group of new pieces players buy. I'm an outlier - I have never bought an Encounter unless it was the only way to get pieces I want (thank goodness that is no longer a problem). But I'm not against Encounters.

4. Instead, I would like DwF creative geniuses to approach the process something like this: 'Gee, we're going to do a Wildland KS. What pieces do gamers use on their tables for wildnerness?' Then they talk through all these possibilities and come up with a list of the pieces players will need, broken out into 'Essential Pieces' (say, 6x6 squares of ground cover - just gently rolling terrain) - Finishing pieces (trees, say, and swamp bases) - then accessories (but accessories necessary to a wildnerness, say tree branches with birds on them or ground cover squares with a patch of carrots - y'all get this is just a bunch of silly examples, not real suggestions right? ….ok, the Rabbits may take the carrots seriously...) - and then group these pieces into saleable sets that allow the buyers to get everything they might want in reasonable groupings. By reasonable I mean no 2:1 ratio of swell walls Right to swell walls Left....

5. And then, and only then, does DwF look at their pieces, take the quickly prepared resin check pieces, play around, and design encounters.

6. It may be DwF already does this. But I think it would focus them on delivering sets of pieces rather than delivering Encounters...and at the early stage of design, I think that's a good focus.

Sorry If I bored y'all and this was already obvious.


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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by Talistran » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:45 am

GODofwar wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:00 am
A quick redip of my oar.

1. I think DwF needs to keep Encounters, but as a focal point of the KS selling structure, NOT the driver of the product design process.

2. I was trying to point out what I think may be a procedure which affects the design process early on, not trying to kill Encounters.

3. My thought, perhaps more clearly expressed, is that if DwF starts by verbally gaming out good encounters and then designs pieces to build them, they MAY be mentally blocked from considering the new KS as a group of new pieces players buy. I'm an outlier - I have never bought an Encounter unless it was the only way to get pieces I want (thank goodness that is no longer a problem). But I'm not against Encounters.

4. Instead, I would like DwF creative geniuses to approach the process something like this: 'Gee, we're going to do a Wildland KS. What pieces do gamers use on their tables for wildnerness?' Then they talk through all these possibilities and come up with a list of the pieces players will need, broken out into 'Essential Pieces' (say, 6x6 squares of ground cover - just gently rolling terrain) - Finishing pieces (trees, say, and swamp bases) - then accessories (but accessories necessary to a wildnerness, say tree branches with birds on them or ground cover squares with a patch of carrots - y'all get this is just a bunch of silly examples, not real suggestions right? ….ok, the Rabbits may take the carrots seriously...) - and then group these pieces into saleable sets that allow the buyers to get everything they might want in reasonable groupings. By reasonable I mean no 2:1 ratio of swell walls Right to swell walls Left....

5. And then, and only then, does DwF look at their pieces, take the quickly prepared resin check pieces, play around, and design encounters.

6. It may be DwF already does this. But I think it would focus them on delivering sets of pieces rather than delivering Encounters...and at the early stage of design, I think that's a good focus.

Sorry If I bored y'all and this was already obvious.


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Totus KS Delenda Sunt, except KS7, which I won't buy....
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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by kodiakbear » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:34 am

While I completely agree with the idea of making an encounter by taking a few different add-on sets plus a adventure pack for the little/special stuff, it got me thinking about a design challenge.

So you organize your peices into some add-on sets as show in KS6 https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... RiclVhWFVR and create an encounter using all of the peices minus 1 or 2 of them and then create at least two other builds that are different enough to be shown as DF modularity examples.

You are free to do a small encounter or a large one but please use all the peices you can and show what you had to leave unused.

This is a challenge to all of us who keep saying DF needs to make the encounters from add-on sets and not just pulling peices from a big pile of options so that the full pledges levels have balanced peices.
Last edited by kodiakbear on Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by dice4hire » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:38 am

I have assaulted this dead equine many times, and frankly my arm is about to fall off, but I hope to see some changes in KSVII, or maybe KSVIII, though seeing how they did the last two mini KSes does not fill me with hope.
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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by dice4hire » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:39 am

Of course I might be totally wrong, which is certainly possible.
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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by GODofwar » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:32 pm

dice4hire wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:39 am
Of course I might be totally wrong, which is certainly possible.
IMPOSSIBLE!

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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by dice4hire » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:14 am

Thanks..... I think.
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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by Rabbit Burner » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:32 am

To make our point crystal clear (we hope) without banging out another long rambling post.

We believe that having the Encounter driving the sculpt designs will potentially get us more inspiring sculpts and environments, so we are all for that process continuation.

We believe encounters help get DF new DooFers.

DF should have at least half an eye on alternative builds with any encounter, which we think they do, but should show these as each encounter is released.
Would love to see more ‘Build of the Month’ style builds which take an encounter and add a couple of add-ons or other encounters and show what can then be built (preferably in the KS). That would certainly help sell the modular aspect of DF terrain.

We would like to see DF provide Add-ons to balance those encounters where an imbalance is found, basically provide anything that makes DooFers lives easier to get the pieces they want and keeps DF doing what they are doing :)
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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by GODofwar » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:51 am

Also a practical guess about how DwF really works, and how we might improve. Tanks, Rabbit.

OH- How is the election going? News claims the recent terr attack has taken over the campaign, is that so? (can you tell- I don't trust the Third Estate?)


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Re: Did Caverns Deep really have the basic needs?

Post by Rabbit Burner » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:17 pm

GODofwar wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:51 am
Also a practical guess about how DwF really works, and how we might improve. Tanks, Rabbit.

OH- How is the election going? News claims the recent terr attack has taken over the campaign, is that so? (can you tell- I don't trust the Third Estate?)


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Totus KS Delenda Sunt, except KS 7, which I won't buy.
We are used to terror attacks sadly so not taken over the election campaigning, just the usual swollen promises, between looking after people or businesses.

Problem is you need to do both and both major parties cannot seem to get it right, then there are the personalities who are as untrustworthy as each other, combine that with the Brexit waste of time and its a bit of a shambles to be honest.

They did at least have a televised debate covering Climate change, which is a step in the right direction, just sad they did not all turn up.
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