Future Cavern sets

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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by GODofwar » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:43 pm

Hexenmond, this is what caverns are supposed to look like! NEat job on a small playspace - and most caverns should be small playspaces.

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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by Hexenmond » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:15 pm

I was just getting into 3D tiles when the KS6 campaign had just been launched. So, I read a lot of forum posts and a recurring recommendation was to get some KS2 caverns as well, with the reasoning being that caverns are all about variety. Following this advice, I hunted down several KS2 sets over the course of several months, which turned out to be an adventure in and by itself, since there wasn't much KS2 left in the web store at the time and shipping to Europe from other US sellers was very expensive.

Now that I own a small collection of both KS2 and KS6 tiles, I found this new posting by Law, whose builds have been so inspirational that his words struck me hard:
Law wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:44 am
So a mix of KS2 and 6? Hm. KS2 offered so little, IMO, it seems irrelevant. An extra couple of 2” wall sculpts, which is nice for variety. But I’ve learned with KS6 that you don’t WANT too many of those walls. You end up with awkwardly square caverns. I’ve built rather large caves and realized I only used ONE basic KS6 straight wall - or sometimes none of them! I don’t need variety if I’m only going to use one. I suppose a huge cavern layout comprised of three or four of the 2x2.5’ caverns I’ve been doing, all linked up with passages - yeah, I’d need more walls and variety would be nice. But these are economy sets - they’re not for people with ambitious plans, I’d think.
I was shocked... no... devastated! Had my hunt for KS2 tiles been completely in vain? Had I forsaken my ambitious plans in the process? This couldn't be!

In a first, and perhaps futile, attempt to prove that there is still life in KS2 tiles, I present to you a small cave suitable for tactical random encounters. As you can see, used mostly KS2 (including 3 'straight' walls) and just a dip into KS6:

ks2_with_some_ks6.jpg
ks2_with_some_ks6.jpg (103.74 KiB) Viewed 369 times

ks2_with_some_ks6_sideview.jpg
ks2_with_some_ks6_sideview.jpg (115.51 KiB) Viewed 369 times

It's basically a KS2 build spiced up with KS6 instead of doing it the other way around.

KS6 pieces used:

- 1 passage end piece
- 1 stepped elevation block
- 1 small ledge piece
- 3 stalagmites

... plus a texture patch and stilts.

I wouldn't be ashamed to use this setup in a game and while it has some of the inherited 'squariness' of KS2 to it, this could be further reduced by swapping in a few more KS6 pieces. I tried only to use the minimum until I liked the result enough to share it. :)

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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by realarete » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:01 pm

I can see the appeal of some sort of revival to KS2 pieces - that is rumors of a "new" starter set combining ks2/ks6 parts - if I am reading things correctly here.

1. KS 2 pieces are boring in comparison, they don't look as nice ... seems like a step backwards.
2. KS2 paint is (sorry all) ugly. That said it looks like they'd be making the revived parts in KS6 scheme ... Going the right direction here.
3. Making things cheap .... Bad idea. Why drop magnets? What would that save a few bucks a pack? People don't buy Dwarven Forge if they are having a tough time balancing their checkbooks .... there is cheaper stuff (clear mat and dry erase pen). This sounds like a terrible idea, because its starting to sound like an entry level, or a economy level set. No thanks.DF is great because of its functionality and usability and LOOKS - terrain trays, magnets, dressing pieces ... They've made BANKS .... clear evidence that that there are expensive sets that serve no purpose other than LOOKS. Don't get me wrong, banks are very nice, glad I got a bunch of forest banks, and more coming with 6.6 order. But you cant place minis on them? Lol, they are purely for looks. Lets not try to make things cheap in a hobby that is a luxury.
4. If they are going to make a starter set they could branch off the basic cavern starter from KS6. Or do some sort of adventure pack themes from the encounters - but that bling usually jumps up the price ... BUT you pay for what you get .... Starter sets are a nice idea on paper but the reality is they just don't look good, and you cant do much with them. See next point -
5. Thats why you need an encounter sized set to get the ball rolling.

I started with resin sets so I already had a bunch of stuff. If I had bought a small cavern set with no magnets and no bling and this was my intro to DF ... they would've stayed in a box and not been used. The price tag may get some new buyers but the appeal may make it their last purchase if its a starter set.
Just my $.02. I may be misinterpreting what they are trying to do here with starter sets..? Is it to provide more bread and butter for veteran backers? I don't need anymore floors or walls ... I want big new pieces and bling for encounters.

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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by GardenDM » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:26 am

I'd consider rebuying a variety of KS2 pieces in KS6 paint and selling my old KS2 sets just to have everything match. I would probably come out ahead, because I doubt I would need much since the KS2 would just be to complement KS6 here and there since I prefer the sculpts from KS6 now anyway.

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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by Law » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:17 am

Adventure themed sets would make sense. Before that idea was thrown out there, I was trying to wrap my head around the need for this.

The cavern starter set IS an affordable basic cavern that uses basic pieces - it’d be difficult to mix in much bling without getting bigger and needing more and then it’s no longer an economical offering. So what’s the need here?

Could be that the original intent was to make fewer basic bread and butter pieces in KS6 because they’d be essentially identical to KS2 pieces and that customer feedback has caused them to rethink this. People want to mix the two, in the same paint scheme, and they want more basic straight walls for KS6 caverns.

If so, though, I think that’s a mistake. KS2 caverns are boxy and dull IMO precisely because that’s what you get if you basically just use straight walls and 90 degree corners, even with the occasional diagonal thrown in. And if the answer is to mix in swell walls or 1” walls to mix it up - THAT’S THE STARTER CAVERN.

But adventure sets make me think of the Construct a Castle sets and I suspect that’s what we’ll see. People are having trouble figuring out what to build here, just like with castles, so there will be a serious of increasingly larger and expensive pre-built caverns. Arguably that’s what the KS6 Encounters were - but not really. The Encounters were actually, IMO, somewhat basic cavern rooms surrounding some other thing: DoD ruins, or the dock, or the bridge, or the MOAM, or even something as basic as the 6x6 cavern floor. They didn’t really showcase just what you can do to create different CAVERNS. Plus, this stuff is such a puzzle I’d imagine that even the DF team needed time to play with it before they realized some of the cool things it can do. They may have better ideas now than they did during the campaign.

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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by William » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:43 pm

LorriZ wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:29 pm
I have mixed thoughts on this. I am one of those weirdos that does want everything to match, but it would not be that handy to have the KS2 pieces in KS6 paint, because i do not use that paint scheme either. I use a paint scheme that is specific to match my resin caverns, but with a lighter color dry brush, then dry brush the resin to match....so, i would still get them unpainted. I do plan to buy quite a few items in the store when KS6 makes it there. What would be cool might be some additional adventure-themed sets. Also, something that we will not see but is badly needed is a falling water elevation block that will work with the nice watery cavern pieces we do have.
I was figuring doing the same thing with my resin once I get my KS-2 and KS-6 stuff painted. Trying a few pieces maybe 3 years ago on some KS-2 stuff seemed to be the easiest way to get them all to mix well. That final stage of painting really was the easiest way too tie them together. Trying to match the resin entirely step by step was driving me mad, so once I hit on this idea, I was convinced it was the path. Something I could do myself, to use "ALL" my caverns together. Sure my resin will never be a perfect match to others, but my resin floor tile colors vary quite a bit already. That's why I'm cool with the drybrush on the resin, it's a great equalizer.

P.S. - I also perfer unpainted and will for the foreseeable future, but I have lots of time to kill. :)

EDIT - Pic of resin variation.
.
Resin Floor Tile Variation.jpg
Resin Floor Tile Variation.jpg (72.72 KiB) Viewed 313 times
Last edited by William on Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by LorriZ » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:29 pm

I have mixed thoughts on this. I am one of those weirdos that does want everything to match, but it would not be that handy to have the KS2 pieces in KS6 paint, because i do not use that paint scheme either. I use a paint scheme that is specific to match my resin caverns, but with a lighter color dry brush, then dry brush the resin to match....so, i would still get them unpainted. I do plan to buy quite a few items in the store when KS6 makes it there. What would be cool might be some additional adventure-themed sets. Also, something that we will not see but is badly needed is a falling water elevation block that will work with the nice watery cavern pieces we do have.
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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by Law » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:44 am

Very interesting. I like the idea but I’m curious to see how it will work. I don’t feel the need for LEDs in caverns and I’m not wild about the KS6 LED pieces beyond the grand riser - which I only like for the sculpt, I’d be fine if it had no lights.

It took me ages to figure out the relationship between KS2 and KS6. At first it seemed like KS6 was too similar to me - same basic footprint, and basic walls and corners were very similar (because honestly how radically different can you make two 2” cavern walls?). KS6 added a bunch of fiddly bits, but I worried it wouldn’t be enough of an improvement for my taste (since I wasn’t crazy about KS2).

In the end I feel like it DID leap forward - but only because of those fiddly bits (and large pieces like the epic curved trifecta corner and the epic crystal elements and the crooked caverns pieces and the stairway to violence base and the 6x6 cavern floor). With all that you can get genuinely organic and chunky caverns not possible in KS2.

So a mix of KS2 and 6? Hm. KS2 offered so little, IMO, it seems irrelevant. An extra couple of 2” wall sculpts, which is nice for variety. But I’ve learned with KS6 that you don’t WANT too many of those walls. You end up with awkwardly square caverns. I’ve built rather large caves and realized I only used ONE basic KS6 straight wall - or sometimes none of them! I don’t need variety if I’m only going to use one. I suppose a huge cavern layout comprised of three or four of the 2x2.5’ caverns I’ve been doing, all linked up with passages - yeah, I’d need more walls and variety would be nice. But these are economy sets - they’re not for people with ambitious plans, I’d think.

Hm.

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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by period3 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:21 am

When you say 'no magnets', does that mean no magnetic walls/accessories, or does that mean no magnets on the bottom for terrain trays?

I hope they still have magnets on the bottom. After briefly playing with my KS6 pledge, I think I could use some more "bread and butter" pieces.

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Re: Future Cavern sets

Post by Tenbears » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:28 am

That Is actually a great marketing idea and keeps KS2 relevant for new backers or anyone that HAS to have a perfect match with KS6. I know that as I painted my matching KS6 and KS2 sets I really liked the variety represented by both sets combined. I would not be surprised if they also start offering Erinthor Mountains in KS6 paint scheme as well - I absolutely love my Erinthor in KS6/2 scheme.

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