What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Law
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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by Law » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:45 am

You’re right, of course. I use my stuff so differently. In fact, until my kids started playing D&D, I didn’t even use DF for gaming. Just display.

I do think that the Forest has a brilliant design to make it worthwhile for both purposes - the removeable trees make it so you can design a forest as dense as you like, AND allow you to remove trees where the “action” is taking place, so a large expanse is beautiful looking forest is mostly intact while the spot where the game takes place can be more practical.

No getting around the issues of the angle of view however. It is actually one of the larger challenges for people like me, I would like to photograph these layouts. Almost all DF is designed to be viewed from above, designed by gamers for gamers. Dungeons have walls, so a straight POV shot will have a backdrop - but they don’t have ceilings, and so much cool floor detail gets lost at that angle. (The old Ogre Den is a great example - the unique wooden floor and bear rug cry out to be viewed FROM ABOVE.). And at least dungeons and caverns have walls - castles and cities take place in an open expanse. A POV shot will always show the background wherever these things are. Use castle walls to make a walled city, that helps - but it needs a lot of expensive castle walls and it eliminates some variety if all your cities have to be walled. I suspect the forest escarpments will help “ground” a forest POV shot - look through the trees at character height and you won’t see the players’ waists and game room beyond, the view will be blocked by the escarpments. Nicely done! But still - the forest floor is so awesome, packs so much more detail, like all DF the proper angle to photograph/view will be a roughly 45 degree angle looking down. No, no way around it, this stuff does not favor completely parallel to the horizon perspectives.

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To Law: A Treatise on Trees & The Use Thereof

Post by GODofwar » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:59 pm

Law wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:43 am
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that I’m going to go heavier on caverns than on forests. It’s simply a matter of what’s available: there are more cavern sets, and I don’t want to leave too much out.

That said, once I get a chance to play around with caverns I can see myself getting into them huge. I need to see how I use them first, but I like the idea of going back and just getting more and more. They’re simple to use, and building a forest over a whole table will be quicker and easier than doing with same with cities, castles or the DoD (well, unless you just used nothing but elevation trays and 12” floors). Plus I like the idea of being able to place forests around towers and larger buildings, or making rivers and lakes, both of which require more coverage.
Why I'm buying only the Spirit Tree and maybe some scatter terrain:

We use CBS, Caverns and Dungeons exactly as they are built. You move from room to room, cavern to cave passage, cell to corridor, and fight with what you have, or role-play ditto.

Forests are very different.
1. They cover a lot of area. Doing this with DwF for me would require up to 50 square feet of coverage - for ONE of my two 5 x 10' fly tables. Too expensive, but more important....

2. A Forest needs to look good - from a Player's distance and perspective.
DISTANCE: A player on my table is an average of about 4-6' from the spot on the table he's seeing. From that distance, trees look smaller. DwF trees would have to be proportionally bigger. As is, they work for 15mm (which is our prime gaming scale) but too small for 25mm.
PERSPECTIVE: Player is looking DOWN on the table. Makes trees even more foreshortened - and makes the table coverage from above, vice the PC"s horizontal POV, more important. Coverage that even partly blocks the table from the Player PoV is pretty dense.
Together these make heavy coverage expensive.

3. Travel and Combat. A PC moving through a forest is usually on a path. Marking a path in DwF forest would have to be done mostly like I do it now - which is defining path edges with yarn, usually green to nearly match my felt tabletop. So DwF is no advantage for movement.
When PC need to roll to detect targets, what matters is forest density. I borrow from wargames and have densities of 1*, 2* and 3*, each defined by how far a PC can see in that forest type. FOr detection, the actual tree density on the table is not important.
For movement, the 'degree' of the forest, not the actual tree density on table, determines movement rate, so DwF does not help there.
When PC need to engage in combat, and only then, does actual tree placement matter.
Soooo....I create forested areas defined by edges of the same green yarn, and 'tell' the Players what the forest density is by tree density. Very few trees in forest areas away from trails is 1*, moderate number 2* etc. I usually mark trails with a higher tree density for looks only. But when combat starts, I move vegetation from other parts of the forest and also add a few low half-contours to show local terain shape. Now PC can actually fight tree to tree using the models. This takes a minute or so down to a few seconds, not much longer than setting up the enemy forces does. DwF would actually make this impossible as the trees are mostly set permanently in the ground. DwF would also make it difficult to remove and replace trees - which I have to do to meausre Lines of Sight and distances. I then put the offending tree back in place.

In short - forests are both a visual and a play challenge not present in the other DwF environments. DwF actually makes movement, combat and role-playing easier and better in the other environments. Dreadhollow will make movement and combat and to some extent role-playing HARDER for me, at at much greater cost (I estimate Dreadhollow will cost two orders of magnitude, yes, 100x, as much as my method - and I already HAVE materials for my method...). So Dreadhollow makes no sense for me.

All that said, some of the individual models and scatter terrain I will get, and I will get a boodle of painted banks as well as some unpainted escarpments. The one good thing about DH is that the ground itself is detailed and gorgeous.

My piece is spoken, Law. Drive on with your plan, wild man, as I suspect you use the stuff very differently than I do, o fellow Trog. Not trying to persuade anyone - merely offering a slightly different take on game play and how DwF fits.


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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by realarete » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:26 pm

Well after spec'ing out my pledge I came in about 150 under my target budget of 2500. Sooooo added an escarpment pack, and the mimic set - looks so harmless :shock: ...... The PM is very nicely done.

Going to take a week or so and make sure Ive got the selections correct, then lock it in.

Good luck everyone!

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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by DroopyMcCool49 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:28 am

With the addition of the forest banks, I think my pledge will be approximately a 60/40 split between caverns and forest, hopefully resulting in 4 square feet of each.

I am very pleased that the Trifecta pack and Escarpment pack were split, as I now intend to get what was previously a pack and a half.

Law
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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by Law » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:43 am

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that I’m going to go heavier on caverns than on forests. It’s simply a matter of what’s available: there are more cavern sets, and I don’t want to leave too much out.

That said, once I get a chance to play around with caverns I can see myself getting into them huge. I need to see how I use them first, but I like the idea of going back and just getting more and more. They’re simple to use, and building a forest over a whole table will be quicker and easier than doing with same with cities, castles or the DoD (well, unless you just used nothing but elevation trays and 12” floors). Plus I like the idea of being able to place forests around towers and larger buildings, or making rivers and lakes, both of which require more coverage.

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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by aggothard » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:42 pm

dice4hire wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:19 am
In one of the last updates they showed off a set just like that but 12x12

I really like the terrain trays. With DOD I have a bunch of the water trays now.

66 plus shipping

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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by aggothard » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:36 pm

ForestZ wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:02 pm
I'm trying to figure out if I can build something similar to Erinthor Mountains from the KS6 ledges and some other bits for cheaper. Or if I should just get an Erinthor when they come back in stock and avoid elevation altogether in KS6. Too many options!
I love my Erinthor set. It is extremely versatile and combines well with most every thing else. Well worth the money. But the KS6 stuff looks amazing too...

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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by zenako » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:58 pm

@ForestZ: The ledges in KS6 are much larger, so easier to make quick builds, but then also not as flexible. I have a couple of mountain sets and plan to augment them with some or all+ of the ledge/elevation sets from Dreadhallow in particular. Also the Savage Gorge has items of interest for either a cave or outdoor setting.

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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by GODofwar » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:56 pm

12 x 12 cut sheet metal is about 1/5 to 1/10 this price. Add in .50 of spray paint.

Nah. No terrain trays for me.


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Re: What add-ons in the PM have you committed to?

Post by ForestZ » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:02 pm

I'm trying to figure out if I can build something similar to Erinthor Mountains from the KS6 ledges and some other bits for cheaper. Or if I should just get an Erinthor when they come back in stock and avoid elevation altogether in KS6. Too many options!

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