Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

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dice4hire
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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by dice4hire » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:32 am

The bank change was indeed a good one.
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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by Rabbit Burner » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:52 am

kitenerd wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:20 am
AnimeSensei wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:06 pm
The hard part is DF is very artistic. Look at the cheap trees off of Amazon, GW trees, or even 3D printed stuff. We have cheap options and they are sufficient. Then DF showed their artistic talent and now Dreadhollow is an in-demand item. It just goes to show the poem "The Touch of the Master's Hand" still rings true. (https://allpoetry.com/The-Touch-of-the-Master's-Hand)

I think DF does great at showing us their skills and selling us on a theme or element, but feedback from customers has been instrumental in refining their product offerings. We've had multiple examples of DF changing a sculpt or a pack composition mid-stream due to feedback.

There are times to listen and times to lead. Designing a theme or environment is a time for DF to lead. Once the product is revealed, it's time to listen. I also think feedback on KS structure has been taken to heart by DF over the last few campaigns and it's paid off.
yup - well saud

Let DF design.

Listen during the KS - i think DF excels here. Packs get adjusted and piece counts changed for better utility. The hive mind may not improve creativity, but is catches a LOT of utility isssues and that improves the offering.

After a line is out, is the MOST important time to listen. When we say we need a 1x2 wall, or a narrow door - PLEASE pay attention. I know it is not fun for the creatives to revisit past to add a bit or a bob that would make the set more effective. The creativity is constrained, been there done that, it is hard to get excited about sculpting one little thing for a set that hasn't fired the imagination for three years. But THOSE bits often increase the utility of the main set exponentially.
Agreed :)

Think DF do a decent job of this - the change to the banks configuration in KS6.66 being a good case in point :)
AnimeSensei wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:30 pm
kitenerd wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:27 pm
subtalon wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:30 am

....
DF obviously needs to develop a line of kites to keep your money rolling in.
Hmmm dwarvenite kites ...........
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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by AnimeSensei » Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:30 pm

kitenerd wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:27 pm
subtalon wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:30 am
DF was ahead of me and they sent out a survey the next day (likely created well ahead of my post).
I have it on good authority that the idea never occured to them. They read your post and had an all night team meeting to create the survey. IT was YOUR vision that made that survey. Without us, DF would be lost ;)

I am kidding of course and not trying to be insulting so please don't take it that way.

It is amazing to me that we all care soo much about DF that we feel the need to try to "run the company" (see my recent rant about Build of the Month... why do i think i have any right to tell DF how to operate?). It just proves how much we LOVE this company and these people and want them to be employed and creative for a LONG time. (this is particularly true for me - i almost CANNOT buy anymore DF - i am out of space and money and cannot even find what i want in the things i have. I spend VERY little these days, but i am still here everyday, checking in with friends and watching my favorite company evolve.)
DF obviously needs to develop a line of kites to keep your money rolling in.
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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by kitenerd » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:27 pm

subtalon wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:30 am
DF was ahead of me and they sent out a survey the next day (likely created well ahead of my post).
I have it on good authority that the idea never occured to them. They read your post and had an all night team meeting to create the survey. IT was YOUR vision that made that survey. Without us, DF would be lost ;)

I am kidding of course and not trying to be insulting so please don't take it that way.

It is amazing to me that we all care soo much about DF that we feel the need to try to "run the company" (see my recent rant about Build of the Month... why do i think i have any right to tell DF how to operate?). It just proves how much we LOVE this company and these people and want them to be employed and creative for a LONG time. (this is particularly true for me - i almost CANNOT buy anymore DF - i am out of space and money and cannot even find what i want in the things i have. I spend VERY little these days, but i am still here everyday, checking in with friends and watching my favorite company evolve.)
"Miniatures?, sure sign of a petty mind!" - 'The Women' 1939

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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by kitenerd » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:20 am

AnimeSensei wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:06 pm
The hard part is DF is very artistic. Look at the cheap trees off of Amazon, GW trees, or even 3D printed stuff. We have cheap options and they are sufficient. Then DF showed their artistic talent and now Dreadhollow is an in-demand item. It just goes to show the poem "The Touch of the Master's Hand" still rings true. (https://allpoetry.com/The-Touch-of-the-Master's-Hand)

I think DF does great at showing us their skills and selling us on a theme or element, but feedback from customers has been instrumental in refining their product offerings. We've had multiple examples of DF changing a sculpt or a pack composition mid-stream due to feedback.

There are times to listen and times to lead. Designing a theme or environment is a time for DF to lead. Once the product is revealed, it's time to listen. I also think feedback on KS structure has been taken to heart by DF over the last few campaigns and it's paid off.
yup - well saud

Let DF design.

Listen during the KS - i think DF excels here. Packs get adjusted and piece counts changed for better utility. The hive mind may not improve creativity, but is catches a LOT of utility isssues and that improves the offering.

After a line is out, is the MOST important time to listen. When we say we need a 1x2 wall, or a narrow door - PLEASE pay attention. I know it is not fun for the creatives to revisit past to add a bit or a bob that would make the set more effective. The creativity is constrained, been there done that, it is hard to get excited about sculpting one little thing for a set that hasn't fired the imagination for three years. But THOSE bits often increase the utility of the main set exponentially.
"Miniatures?, sure sign of a petty mind!" - 'The Women' 1939

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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by subtalon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:30 am

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:22 am
As we posted elsewhere we are not keen on more customer involvement even if if seems a no-brainer. Citing the example of Dreadhollow, there were many here, including us, that did not want Dwarvenite trees, now we are totally psyched at getting them for Christmas.

If DF do canvass backer/customer opinion then your proposal has merit :) but we would like to see the equivalent information that they would present during a KS before we have to make a decision as to which theme/subtheme we want to see in a KS, then we can all make a more informed one.

We trust DF to provide us the terrain we want that we did not even know we wanted.

The overriding concern is DF to stay in business and if they feel the best way is to canvass backer/customer opinion then they should do so and we will provide ours if asked.
Oh don't get me wrong I don't ever think you should ask the customer what they want, they may say free beer! And you can't stay in business long giving that away, especially through the mail.

I totally trust the artists to create great things and I think the survey they sent was very good. In general discovering customers problems and what they want solved and then figuring out how it aligns to your business vision and abilities (i.e. Dwarvenite beer sounds crunchy). I trust the artists and find business folks to figure those things out. Being able to provide input is always helpful in understanding where your customer base is. Desirability is the #1 factor in profit and there are lots of ways to test that: survey's, prototypes, interviews, and the most expensive building a full product line. The KS model helps this quite a bit they don't over produce beyond a prototype if not enough people want it.

My suggestion is was more around focusing the discovery of desirability prior to KS and only create prototypes for the KS that have a high chance of sales. And like most things DF was ahead of me and they sent out a survey the next day (likely created well ahead of my post).

I like you have the biggest concern around making sure that DF stays super profitable and in business for a long time.

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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by Rabbit Burner » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:15 am

We do agree that DF should listen to feedback and it is clear they do :)

We just do not think they need to open any formal methods of communication with customers/backers with regard to future offerings.
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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by William » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:12 pm

GardenDM wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:35 pm
AnimeSensei wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:06 pm
The hard part is DF is very artistic. Look at the cheap trees off of Amazon, GW trees, or even 3D printed stuff. We have cheap options and they are sufficient. Then DF showed their artistic talent and now Dreadhollow is an in-demand item. It just goes to show the poem "The Touch of the Master's Hand" still rings true. (https://allpoetry.com/The-Touch-of-the-Master's-Hand)

I think DF does great at showing us their skills and selling us on a theme or element, but feedback from customers has been instrumental in refining their product offerings. We've had multiple examples of DF changing a sculpt or a pack composition mid-stream due to feedback.

There are times to listen and times to lead. Designing a theme or environment is a time for DF to lead. Once the product is revealed, it's time to listen. I also think feedback on KS structure has been taken to heart by DF over the last few campaigns and it's paid off.
Beautiful poem and well said sentiment. I agree 100%.
I agree, but do not forget the Master's hand touches all.
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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by GardenDM » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:35 pm

AnimeSensei wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:06 pm
The hard part is DF is very artistic. Look at the cheap trees off of Amazon, GW trees, or even 3D printed stuff. We have cheap options and they are sufficient. Then DF showed their artistic talent and now Dreadhollow is an in-demand item. It just goes to show the poem "The Touch of the Master's Hand" still rings true. (https://allpoetry.com/The-Touch-of-the-Master's-Hand)

I think DF does great at showing us their skills and selling us on a theme or element, but feedback from customers has been instrumental in refining their product offerings. We've had multiple examples of DF changing a sculpt or a pack composition mid-stream due to feedback.

There are times to listen and times to lead. Designing a theme or environment is a time for DF to lead. Once the product is revealed, it's time to listen. I also think feedback on KS structure has been taken to heart by DF over the last few campaigns and it's paid off.
Beautiful poem and well said sentiment. I agree 100%.

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Re: Splitting Wildlands? Great idea!

Post by AnimeSensei » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:06 pm

The hard part is DF is very artistic. Look at the cheap trees off of Amazon, GW trees, or even 3D printed stuff. We have cheap options and they are sufficient. Then DF showed their artistic talent and now Dreadhollow is an in-demand item. It just goes to show the poem "The Touch of the Master's Hand" still rings true. (https://allpoetry.com/The-Touch-of-the-Master's-Hand)

I think DF does great at showing us their skills and selling us on a theme or element, but feedback from customers has been instrumental in refining their product offerings. We've had multiple examples of DF changing a sculpt or a pack composition mid-stream due to feedback.

There are times to listen and times to lead. Designing a theme or environment is a time for DF to lead. Once the product is revealed, it's time to listen. I also think feedback on KS structure has been taken to heart by DF over the last few campaigns and it's paid off.
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