Adventure packs

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arsthein
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Re: Adventure packs

Post by arsthein » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:09 am

dice4hire wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:11 pm
I really wish, as stated above that all encounters were a mix of add-on packs. Use the adventure pack to make it different, but have no core packs at all. This would perhaps make the PM a bit more complicated unless the encounter button would add the packs automatically, but it would massively simplify their store and I'm sure the factory would approve.
I just quote d4h because it is the last post I've found with this opinion, but I'm glad others have expressed the same sentiment.

I'm wholeheartedly on this boat.

I admit I don't like encounters, but I recognize their value and interest from a marketing and business perspective (some newcomers are attracted by them, and some old customers enjoy them very much), so I'm fine with them being available. But as others have stated, my problem is when this means that the ratio of pieces makes no sense or there are capstone pieces you cannot get unless you take a full encounter (DoD) or, if you want more, you have to take several whole encounters.

So I'm all the way into the idea of making the encounters just add-on packs, and get rid of the core packs. It's just one step further of what the essential packs tried to achieve (and managed to, to some extent, but then they are not popular on the web store). Get the core pieces (and simple dressing / elevations, etc) back to standard packs of rooms/passages, starter sets and advanced builders of old.

KS6 was a massive improvement on this model (Damn there are so many DoD pieces I would like to get in numbers without getting an enormous amount of unrelated stuff) and Plaguestone and Hellscape have seen even more improvements. It seems to me they are almost there...

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Re: Adventure packs

Post by dice4hire » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:11 pm

I also like the adventure pack idea, but thought the ones in KS6.66 were kind of poorly chosen, and DF was probably right to yank them from the PM. The CD adventure packs were well chosen overall, I think. They had a nice mix of stuff to make nice encounters and stuff that was not available or hard to get elsewhere.

I really wish, as stated above that all encounters were a mix of add-on packs. Use the adventure pack to make it different, but have no core packs at all. This would perhaps make the PM a bit more complicated unless the encounter button would add the packs automatically, but it would massively simplify their store and I'm sure the factory would approve.

I wonder what innovations they will have for KSVII. I am sure they will tweak it a bit from CD.
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Re: Adventure packs

Post by realarete » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:36 pm

I agree, adventure packs fit any collection. I like them a lot. I didn't get any FULL encounters with KS6 except DoomHollow Forest. But I did get 3 of the adventure packs.

Once you have walls floors and some signature building pieces ( entrance riser, etc ) what really makes an encounter pop is the dressing you can lay into it : A pool of cave water, a fountain, gargoyles perched on pillars, GOLEM-walls, chests, a Dias with an LED orb, spider webs, etc. This stuff IS the encounter! Its why the adventure packs are great. If I HAD to spend $300 to buy more walls and floors when all I wanted was a few GOLEMs that would suck. Not to mention I wouldn't do it.

So I hope the adventure packs stay around. I think the fact that two of the packs were dropped in 6.66 was because of the number of other small packs serving the same purpose. I think DF does a really nice job giving a break down of the "parts" of an encounter so we can target where our tastes and needs takes us ... If only our wallets were aligned to those parameters as well! :lol: :lol: I don't think they are going to change the model of how they offer things .. I hope not at least. Though I could be on board with smaller releases like 6.66, rather than massive undertakings like CD.

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Re: Adventure packs

Post by DWChancellor » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:46 pm

For me adventure packs are essential offerings that work for any size collection, while core and encounter packs are going to be more optional when you're expanding existing lines (dungeons, CBS, caverns...)

I get the feeling that core packs get marked up a little less in the webstore than others too, so I load up on the fiddly bits during KS and wait to see if I really want more core pieces.
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Re: Adventure packs

Post by Rabbit Burner » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:06 am

We believe that DF got a hammering from potential backers that wanted to be told what they could build in the Castles KS.

We have said before that we believe that encounters came out of the the Castles KS when they added the complete build packages Counts Castle and Royal Stronghold in response to backer complaints that they did not know what they could build.

So now you get cool encounters but the piece count can be skewed, frustrating when you want to create alternative builds and the piece numbers dont seem to add up

We did not go for any actual caverns in CD but it seemed like you could get fairly logical amounts of required sculpts through add-on packs. The core packs were geared to those who want to build the encounter layout without the bling so would have a potentially skewed piece count.
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Re: Adventure packs

Post by AnimeSensei » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:10 am

I think what you're describing, Kitenerd, is what Magic the Gathering has been doing for over 25 years.

The core set.

The core set in Magic is their "vanilla" product that has reprints of cards in it, and everyone knows it does. They put new cards in to keep it fresh, but the common knowledge is that certain product staples will be included.

Here's an example:

Image

Image

Image

...lots of years later still going strong...

Image

Not every core set has the same mix of cards, but it always has a well-rounded mix.

Something like PlagueStone is a good way to re-release good mixes of bread and butter pieces, sprinkled with some unique items and some new items to placate the 3 types of customers: New customers that could use everything, customers that need to expand their collection with bling or more high use pieces, and collectors that want the set to add to their collection. Just like Magic's core set, having an annual release of some returning pieces mixed with new pieces and new themes keeps is "the same but different" enough to make a solid product offering.

I think that whether they partner with Paizo in the future or not, just releasing something that combines a small amount of new items and a large amount of old but good items could be a great idea for DF if they can get the mix of pieces done correctly. There's an existing model in Magic, in re-releases of movies, and many other areas in this vein of thought. Kitenerd hit the nail on the head that this needs to happen again on an annual basis in some form. The smaller size helps keep wallet doom low and at the same time opens up a lot of possibilities for buyers. It also stirs the pot of interest and causes people to open their wallets when they may have decided to pass on buying something earlier. ("I don't know if I want to spend money on another cavern set... oh hey, a new cavern encounter? Cool!") It's also a great mix of sets to bring to conventions to sell. I mean, this set had outdoors, caverns, and dungeons in it. Almost perfect for a new DM. All they need after that is something to build an inn. I wonder who makes that?
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Re: Adventure packs

Post by kitenerd » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:21 am

Again I keep hammering the same point If you build everything out of modular building blocks then you can put together as many encounters as you want but you still only need to stock the building blocks as SKUs in the store.

DF cannot continue to offer everything that they offer in every kick starter in perpetuity. At a certain point they need to have all of the bits available but not necessarily every possible combination of those bits.

Plaugestone is a perfect example of this. I highly doubt those four encounters will be available forever. But they’re a great way to repackage existing product, generate new interest and bring new people into the fold.

With a model like that every year or between every kick starter you can have a smaller offering of new sets to get people interested to generate new excitement - tied to a module from wizards or troll lord or anyone - hell tie it to a movie, cartoon, book or even something like Critical Role. It could even be a fan created encounter (buy Law’s port city with dancing girls as a stretch goal). The fact that THAT particular combo of pieces is only available for a limited time drives sales by creating immediacy.

I think Plaugestone is genius and a brilliant path forward for DF to keep generating excitement for existing stuff
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Re: Adventure packs

Post by GardenDM » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:54 pm

William wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:31 pm
pacarat wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:28 pm
kodiakbear wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:07 pm

I also wish DF would design the base pieces add-on packs for what they think is the right amount of peices of a given kind and then use that as a guide to design the encounters. I am not against encounters, I am against encounters that have 3 lefts of a piece and only 1 right or 4 out side turns and only 1 inside turn. Even more so when you add up all the encounters and find you have 17 rights and 9 lefts.
This.
,...would be great.
*cries in Passage Inside Corner*

*Disclaimer: Not a perfect example since the Doomroller Encounter has the perfect ratio of Inside Corner to Outside Corner (approx. 2:1) while the add-ons are 1:1 (or close to), which is waaaay off. But still, same ballpark issue.

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Re: Adventure packs

Post by William » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:31 pm

pacarat wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:28 pm
kodiakbear wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:07 pm

I also wish DF would design the base pieces add-on packs for what they think is the right amount of peices of a given kind and then use that as a guide to design the encounters. I am not against encounters, I am against encounters that have 3 lefts of a piece and only 1 right or 4 out side turns and only 1 inside turn. Even more so when you add up all the encounters and find you have 17 rights and 9 lefts.
This.
,...would be great.
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Re: Adventure packs

Post by pacarat » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:28 pm

kodiakbear wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:07 pm

I also wish DF would design the base pieces add-on packs for what they think is the right amount of peices of a given kind and then use that as a guide to design the encounters. I am not against encounters, I am against encounters that have 3 lefts of a piece and only 1 right or 4 out side turns and only 1 inside turn. Even more so when you add up all the encounters and find you have 17 rights and 9 lefts.
This.

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