can't afford these anymore.

Gargs454
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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by Gargs454 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:20 am

dice4hire wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:03 am
This is the first DFKS I have not dropped 500 or so on the first minute. All the rest I knew I would end up spending at least that much. No idea this time.
To be fair, I think this was kind of the point with the "relatively small" kickstarter though. I think it was likely understood that they wouldn't be getting as many massive pledges as some of the other kickstarters, etc.

For me, its a bit of a quandry. I'm a really new DF'er (backed KS5, timing was wrong for KS6). I don't have any caverns yet and still have Dungeon stuff I want. As such, making a big pledge for Hellscape doesn't make a ton of sense since as most have said, Hellscape isn't something that is going to come up a lot in most games (though I could think of a campaign where it might happen more often). So I may end up pledging for a few add-ons to give a bit of cavern terrain with some lava feel to it, etc. The door pack looks perfect (especially since I assume the actual doors would be compatible with the KS5 doors).

All that said, I think that the overall offerings so far are fantastic! Its gorgeous and I love that they keep pushing the capabilities of their products by adding things like the light pads. Those would work well with say the Eldritch Pools from KS5 for instance. I can't imagine ever needed 7 of the light pads though since I use this stuff for games and frankly, my players just are not going to get through all of that in one session. For those that do though, or who like to use it for display . . . yeah, absolutely gorgeous.

Now back to debating between making a higher pledge and picking up more stuff at the store. lol

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blakoutsun
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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by blakoutsun » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:47 am

I agree with rabbit on the banks. I usually try to have a river run lengthwise on a terrain tray. Having a lava river using negative space seems to be rather expensive given the current bank solutions.

I'd like to echo the thanks for the cost clarification on the caverns paint scheme pieces.

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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by Rhizom » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:06 am

I stay with the new banks in standard cavern paint only and my cavern banks from KS6 and the lava terrain-trays from KS5 as negative space. That makes my hell cheap enough.

Well, not sure, yet, if I will try some light panels and Phantasmal Filters to add variety to my negative space builds... but that would still be affordable.
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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by Rabbit Burner » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:53 am

geekjeff wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 am
Oldent wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:17 pm

I am less concerned for the cost than the strange configurations. Why are there less straight Magma river sections than curves.?
An all Straight Magma River pack may be something to consider if funding does well, you're not the only one who has mentioned it. Repetition is a problem, visually, without an alternate sculpt and that ups the cost quite a bit. You can possibly disguise some of that repetition with diagonal jogs, and maybe using the T intersection pieces and covering up the T leg with scatter terrain (which also uses up some of those pieces in the current assortment configs.)

What kinds of designs do you have in mind which require many straight segments? Lava Moats? Or something else? I'm sure you have something specific in mind.

I think it's a reasonable set to want, I don't know if it's in the cards.

See we dont want a magma river we want a lava river - geology pedant here :)

Clarification: Magma is underground Lava and Lava is overground Magma :D #everydayisalearningday

We want to be able to be able to create a lava river/moat - so we are keen on a straights pack. More than one straights sculpt would be special but understand why its not available.

What we would love to do is run a lava river through Dreadhollow #justbecause #momoforpresident

Still its better than the KS2 lava/magma/tomato water river
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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by TheHangedMan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:22 am

kitenerd wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:22 am
KS2 2sets was 208 sq inches for $205 or 99¢ per square inch - with 3 sculpts

KS1 2sets was 256 sq inches for $170 or 66¢ per square inch - with 3 sculpts (that have a footprint)

Ok so prices have slightly more than doubled in 7 years - pieces are more diverse, sculpting has evolved, painting is more sophisticated and there are more blingy scatter pieces in every set. In a similar time frame pre painted D&D minis went from $10 for 8 to $15 for 4.
Do you have the cost comparisons for the more recent KS sets? KS1, in particular, was a relatively simple design with an easy paint job. At first glance, KS 6.66 does not seem out of line with the fancier recent sets, like the crystal caverns, so I am wondering if there is still a price gap on those.

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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by marcoreds » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:34 am

LadySabelle wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:55 pm
The factory was not happy with us for the multiple paint schemes in Caverns Deep. They are trying to discourage us from doing it by charging a higher cost for the alternate schemes unless the order is really large. We want to give you what you're asking for, but it comes at a price.
Thank you for the answer.

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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by dice4hire » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:56 am

I also agree. When the makers cover a 14 by 4 foot table with the current KSes offering and use a piece less than a half dozen times, the lack of economies of scale is hardly the customers fault. Ditto when the piece is basically possible to get in multiples.
Last edited by dice4hire on Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by Saxon1974 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:15 am

kitenerd wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:22 am
And we are back to the same old value and cost comparisons over the years... looking back it is actually not as bad as it seems

First circle (painted) is 92 sq inches for $136 or roughly 1.48 per square inch - with 10 unique sculpts (that have a footprint)

KS2 2sets was 208 sq inches for $205 or 99¢ per square inch - with 3 sculpts

KS1 2sets was 256 sq inches for $170 or 66¢ per square inch - with 3 sculpts (that have a footprint)

Ok so prices have slightly more than doubled in 7 years - pieces are more diverse, sculpting has evolved, painting is more sophisticated and there are more blingy scatter pieces in every set. In a similar time frame pre painted D&D minis went from $10 for 8 to $15 for 4.

Of course both KS1 & KS2 had stretch goals that greatly expanded the footprint, but that ship has sailed and no amount of us jumping and waving will get it to come back.

While i am happy i got a ton of bread and butter when the getting was good, i am not too dismayed by the cost now. Once again the crew has done a great job of keeping packs small so we can all build inexpensively ($17 for an infernal door? - thank you don’t mind if i do!). The key is just to ignore the ever more obnoxious and ridiculous high end pledges and get what you want and need.

I’m happy for the folks who can spend thousands of dollars, they get all this stuff made so the rest of us can cherry pick what we want.
Understand your arguments, I get the sculpts are more detailed and elaborate now. That being said the cost of this stuff is very high and while I can afford it it really is just about at the point I won't be getting too much more. I personally love the stuff and hope it keeps doing well for them but less pieces for MUCH bigger costs just doesn't give me as much value personally. No problem with people that like it though. Also, as I said the hellscape theme doesn't occur that much in games, at least not in my experiences. It's a cool looking set but not essential for me when the costs are this high. I have nothing bad to say about DF, I am sure making stuff this detailed is quite expensive and time consuming so I hope they continue to do well.

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dice4hire
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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by dice4hire » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:03 am

This is the first DFKS I have not dropped 500 or so on the first minute. All the rest I knew I would end up spending at least that much. No idea this time.
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Re: can't afford these anymore.

Post by geekjeff » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 am

Oldent wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:17 pm

I am less concerned for the cost than the strange configurations. Why are there less straight Magma river sections than curves.?
An all Straight Magma River pack may be something to consider if funding does well, you're not the only one who has mentioned it. Repetition is a problem, visually, without an alternate sculpt and that ups the cost quite a bit. You can possibly disguise some of that repetition with diagonal jogs, and maybe using the T intersection pieces and covering up the T leg with scatter terrain (which also uses up some of those pieces in the current assortment configs.)

What kinds of designs do you have in mind which require many straight segments? Lava Moats? Or something else? I'm sure you have something specific in mind.

I think it's a reasonable set to want, I don't know if it's in the cards.
Last edited by geekjeff on Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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