Official PM video

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AnimeSensei
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Re: Official PM video

Post by AnimeSensei » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:55 am

Law wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am
It’s an attempt to broaden their audience by extending their product line. I think it’s at least worth a try. If it doesn’t work, I’m sure they’ll stop. They stopped making Sci-Fi terrain. They’ve pretty much stopped making resin sets. When something doesn’t work, they’ve shown they can pull the plug. The fact that they keep going back tells me it’s working. The minis offerings have been good sellers for multiple campaigns in a row, since KSIII.
I think this is a very good point. DF wouldn't continue to make them if they lost money on them. Resin sets that aren't "the popular ones" but are more utilitarian seem to sit in their warehouse until someone discovers they actually do need certain pieces to build as they wish. The costs to rent that space probably is larger than we all would like to think. Dwarvenite seems to move faster as it's constantly out of stock, even the minis. DF is a business first and foremost (even though we like to say they're just as big of fans of it as we are, they have to pay their own bills). DF won't continue a bad monetary decision if an idea turns out to be a loss. A good example I think is the Elevation Platform from KS5. It had an awesome concept, but in the end I think it was a dud due to the overall cost in the end, the lids warping, and the fact the measurements didn't really work out the way they wanted to with piece storage. I wouldn't be surprised if over time it gets phased out of the webstore.
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Re: Official PM video

Post by MrMorden » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:50 am

Law wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am
I’m passing on the dog, as he’s just not worth it at that price to me personally. It’s a cool figure and the LED feature is awesome. But I just can’t have everything.
I'm wrestling with the doggo a bit. I don't really need it, but it looks amazing. It might be the first non-painted piece of DF I buy, simply because I think I can put a paint job on him that will look amazing with the great sculpt he already has...

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Re: Official PM video

Post by MrMorden » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:46 am

dice4hire wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am
Yes, but how much do would you have to spend for the ones you DO want?

That is more my point. Very few people get everything and I would dare to say no one gets as much as they truly want from DF, speaking of multiples of specific pieces. It is annoying when a piece I do indeed want (like said crocodile) is so hard to get.

Yes, I know it is easy now, but the point remains as each KS has hard to ridiculously hard to get pieces. People on these forums often talk about them.
Ah, I see what you meant, sorry if I took the wrong point.

I think DF has done a great job in breaking things out to allow you to still get the "chase" bits outside of the big sets, which is one of the things that made CD so complex. Can you think of a specific "chase piece" in CD or KS6.66 that is hard to get without spending a lot on items you don't want? I can't...

It would be wonderful if there were a SKU per piece and we could just order everything a la carte, but that would be a nightmare for DF and would drive prices up as well. They have tried to find a good middle ground over the last few years and I think they are getting close to a balance that suits 90% of buyers. I'm mostly happy with it, with a few minor quibbles.

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Re: Official PM video

Post by kitenerd » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:41 am

Caverns Mega Banks marks the first time that the painted set has been more than 2X the cost of unpainted...

The premium for painted has been steadily rising, but lately it has jumped significantly so as to make some things unviable
"Miniatures?, sure sign of a petty mind!" - 'The Women' 1939

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Re: Official PM video

Post by Law » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:18 am

I’m passing on the dog, as he’s just not worth it at that price to me personally. It’s a cool figure and the LED feature is awesome. But I just can’t have everything.

I do think DF making minis is a sensible choice for them. Sure, lots of other companies make minis. But that’s because minis are bar none the most profitable thing you can make in this hobby. There really a ton of KS campaigns around them because the audience is insatiable. Not everyone buys terrain.

If DF absolutely couldn’t compete, it’d be one thing. But they can. Their product looks excellent and is priced competitively. Is it the best thing out there? No. But it is strong.

The real issue is whether it’s worth it - dedicating finite resources to a crowded marketplace etc. And I think it is. The minis are a draw to more people than the terrain is. The minis may even expose people to the terrain simply bc there are people shopping around for minis. The minis work well with the terrain - not just in general but thematically. Town guard for cities, castle siege defenders, DoD encounters based around particular monster confrontations. They draw people in - terrain fans want the minis to center the encounter around, and minis fans may find the terrain tempting to complement them.

It’s an attempt to broaden their audience by extending their product line. I think it’s at least worth a try. If it doesn’t work, I’m sure they’ll stop. They stopped making Sci-Fi terrain. They’ve pretty much stopped making resin sets. When something doesn’t work, they’ve shown they can pull the plug. The fact that they keep going back tells me it’s working. The minis offerings have been good sellers for multiple campaigns in a row, since KSIII.

I wasn’t wild about the KS6 minis, but I’ve loved all the rest. I’m as excited to see the minis from KS7 as I am for the rest of it.

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Re: Official PM video

Post by dice4hire » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am

Yes, but how much do would you have to spend for the ones you DO want?

That is more my point. Very few people get everything and I would dare to say no one gets as much as they truly want from DF, speaking of multiples of specific pieces. It is annoying when a piece I do indeed want (like said crocodile) is so hard to get.

Yes, I know it is easy now, but the point remains as each KS has hard to ridiculously hard to get pieces. People on these forums often talk about them.
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Re: Official PM video

Post by MrMorden » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:51 am

If you don't have to obsessively have everything, chase pieces become irrelevant. I don't have a two-headed croc, but I'm not going to get one just to say I have it to make others jealous in some way. Especially when I'd never think to use a two-headed croc in my game unless I had one on the shelf that I spent a lot of money on...

I guess I just grew out of "keeping up with the Joneses" purchases a long time ago. I buy what I think I need and want, not what is going to make me look cool to somebody I don't even know.

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Re: Official PM video

Post by dice4hire » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:44 am

Please do not get me started on my thoughts about encounters......

But I do agree that if encounters are done, minis do make a lot more sense.

I see this part of our grand hobby as

Terrain
Bling
and
Minis

DF is best at terrain as no one else really makes terrain like they do, premade and prepainted if you like that style.

They are good to very good at bling (Hello Lady S!!!). They do make a lot of interesting pieces to put in their terrain to make it more interesting or to make an area into an encounter.

They also can make good to very good minis, with decent variety. I particularly like the group mins like guardsmen, rats and lizardfolk.

I am here for the terrain though, and I do not like when the terrain I am purchasing is subsidizing the other two. These days, stretch goals have changed from making more copies of existing pieces, to funding a mold for a new piece. Especially when that new piece will be seen and owned by a tiny fraction of DF buyers. Everyone has L walls but how many had 2 headed crocs from KSIII. How many have the others in that grab bag set that were from Capital or Empire pledges?

I know DF will never do only terrain and maybe they should not. I don't know. But i do know that chase pieces are one big reason my DF buying is winding down recently.
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Re: Official PM video

Post by MrMorden » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:11 am

I think DF really has to offer minis to some extent. Wait, what? Why, you ask?

To sell the terrain pieces. If they had produced the CD sets without any miniatures, it would seem like a very sterile environment, with no life to it. But add Mercer to the Prison Passage, and Skyss-Ryssa the lizard shaman to her shrine, and suddenly the environments are unique and interesting instead of a boring bunch of stone areas with some water and quicksand trays.

Once they commit to making all the smaller terrain elements like the Dwarven Forge, Rowboat, and Hag's Den pieces, they are in the mini business anyway. They might as well make some memorable characters to spark buyers' imaginations while they are there.

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Re: Official PM video

Post by dice4hire » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:17 am

I truly hope they make money on the Cerberus, but how many will they have to sell? I imagine it is a lot.

I do not think you can really compare it to bones as a similar sized bones mini would be less than ten or maybe at most 11-12 dollars retail. Yes, it is cheaper or the similar price to the larger models, but it is not large. The LEDS are pretty unique in a model of that size and that alone is attractive

I am on the fence about it. I will probably not get it, but it is an impressive piece. I have a few questions for DF but I will ask them on the KS, they seem to see questions better there.
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