KS6.66 - LIGHT PANELS

Knightess JenneyOC will keep you up-to-date on the latest Dwarven Forge Kickstarter 6.66 developments here! This is a read-only forum.
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KS6.66 - LIGHT PANELS

Post by JenneyOC » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:14 am

Q: I wonder how different these light panels are from the artist ones available all over now. Smaller edges? No on/off switches? Love to hear more.

A: The light panels are designed specifically to work with Dwarven Forge pieces. They ahave an AC adaptor, a 12V power supply, are perfectly sized to fit an 8x8 DF grid, have very small bezels so you don't have thick black lines between the panels, are the height of a standard floor (11mm) and they are able to be daisy chained up to 9 units.

You can certainly use other light boxes/tracing boxes with these pieces if you already have one, but these are custom made to work with DF terrain sizes and pretty competitively priced.

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Q: What about offering 4x4 light panels?

A: Probably not. The light panels are new and expensive to make, and we are only dipping our toe into the illumination at the moment. Depending on how this goes there is always potential for the future to see other sizes.

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Q: What type of plugs will the light panels have?
A: They will be US style plugs.
A: (Jay) Light panel panel transformers will accept 110-240V inputs.

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Q: How big are the light panels? 12x12, 8x8?
A: They are 8x8 grid squares.

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Q: As the DF Light Panel is able to support up to 9 connected panels, I think it makes sense to provide a purchasing option to efficiently reach that maximum potential. Any change for a DF Light Panel 9 pack?.

A: 7 is the largest pack offered because 7 is the number required for the Soulcage Vault build as shown. The three Light Box packs correspond to the requirements of Encounters 1, 2, and 3. But in general, I never like to push any electronic device to the absolute limit of its specs. If you need 9+ and your layout allows it, better to use an extra power supply if it's available.

A: (Fellow Backer) "up to approximately 9 panels with a single transformer," to me, suggests that DF would avoid using 9 when possible and use multiple transformers

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Re: KS6.66 - LIGHT PANELS

Post by JenneyOC » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:41 pm

Q: The light panels take a 12 V input. Would it be possible to supply that with a USB-C PD Power Bank? These batteries can have quite a bit of power and might be able to power a light bank (or two/three?) for an hour or two.
What is the estimated power consumption of a light panel?

A: In order to power up to 9 panels, we elected to use 12V 2A power. Strictly speaking it’s possible to use a lower power 5V adapter to power fewer panels (4 or less) but we don’t recommend it.

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Q: What's the thickness of the light panels?
Will it be noticeable if I have a transition from non-panel tiles to illuminated panel tiles?

A: (Elye) The light panels are the same thickness as a standard floor tile. The risers are also the same height, so you can use them to easily elevate surrounding areas.

A: (Jeff) they are 11mm, the same as a standard floor tile.
The light box addons include some foamcore risers to make the parts of your Encounter build which aren’t over a light panel level with the parts that are.
If you’re doing your own free build and run out of foamcore risers, you can use any random spare Floors from DoD, Caverns Deep, etc as risers.

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Q: "How strong are the light trays?vCan they be safely lifted with the pieces on top or should they be cleared anytime you want to move them?"

A: (Nate) We have prototypes. They seem very sturdy. Will load them up and try them out

A: (Tobi) While we only have a working prototype at the office, it will be sturdy enough to move them with a reasonable amount of pieces on them. However, don't move a connected chain of light panels with pieces on them. Once again we only have a working early prototype here, but the connectors are not structural connectors (just for power), and you'd likely want to separate a large chain of panels before moving

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Q: "How hot do the light trays get" Do we have to worry about damaging pieces/paintjobs over extended use.

A: The DF lightpanels use LEDs which generate almost no heat. We’ll do an extended test for you with terrain on top.

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Q: I watched the livestream and it looked like the bottom of the light panel is basically an 8x8 piece of dungeon tile. I’m assuming the shell will be made from abs plastic and not dwarvenite. Am I basically correct in these assumptions?

A: (Elye) You're right that the current plan is for the bottom of the tile to be essentially an 8x8 dungeon tile (yay extra functionality!). The material will most likely be ABS. (Dwarvenite-G).

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Re: KS6.66 - LIGHT PANELS

Post by JenneyOC » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:46 am

Q: how do the magnetic pieces work with the light panels? I assume the light panels are not metallic.

A: Placing pieces with magnets on top will not be a problem. The box itself is not magnetic, but the magnetic pieces will not harm the unit.

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Q: I noticed that the light panels are taped off between the piece seams in the Update 3 video. Is this to stop "light leakage" between the pieces where they meet up? Do you have recommendations on how to do this at home? Is it necessary for a good effect?

A: The tape was because our pieces are currently prototypes and since they are hand casted they are not fully square so there is some light leakage. If there is leakage at the final, we have a plan and perhaps a final secret for you.

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Q: Any chance a USB cable could be provided to allow for battery powered light panels?

A: Short answer is no. we looked into it, but it was a mess.The long answer is very complicated. However for $5 you can get international adaptor and it will work well for you.

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Re: KS6.66 - LIGHT PANELS

Post by JenneyOC » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:23 am

Q: do the light panels only attach to one another or will there be cables available to bring light to wherever you want?

A: There is one main plug in each pack, but Nate and the team is looking into connectors so that you don’t HAVE to put the light panels immediately next to you. They will update us as they figure items out with this particular prototype.

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Q: Would it be possible to add additional power switches to the bundle light packs? I like the idea of the five pack, but I don’t like how there’s only one power cord. If I want to light up multiple areas at different times or intensities, the “value pack” doesn’t allow for that option. Love the idea that you can daisy chain them together, but it limits options with only the one plug / control. Thanks!

A: (Elye) The power switches account for a fair amount of the cost of the packs, so adding more would mean upping the cost. Depending on how many different areas you anticipate lighting, I'd recommend getting one of the larger packs plus enough of the singles (each with its own power cord) to handle the number of areas you want to cover.

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Q: how “high” can you build over the top of a light panel yet still get the light to “penetrate” through the pieces???

A” Probably only a layer or two because the light diffuses and decreases intensity the more layers it needs to travel through.

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Q: Can a mirror be used to reflect the light panel with sufficient strength to “penetrate” the pieces? I’m thinking of the clear waterfall piece. Based on color filter used - could be a lava fall, ice fall, water fall, acid fall...also, with a clear door? Runes which glow on a wall piece?

A: Not sure, but that sure sounds like a neat experiment to try.

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Q: After watching the light demo. I'm concerned that the bright white will show through cracks between the pieces. It might be useful to have plain yellow gel to put underneath so that any lights showing through the cracks glows yellow.

A:Nate mentioned in a livestream that part of the issue is the hand cast prototype Lava tiles aren’t all completely square or even. It’s a hazard when casting resin, especially larger pieces. They have some ideas on how to handle that if it proves necessary. Yellow acetate sheets is a potentially interesting one.

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Re: KS6.66 - LIGHT PANELS

Post by JenneyOC » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:30 am

Q: Do you have tested the maximal capacity weight of a light panel? What happens if I put e.g. a 6 level CBS square tower on the light panel? Is it robust enough or to much weight?

A: we recommend / suggest 1-2 levels, and don't move them around with more than 1 level on it. But Nate did build a 4 levels high with large polystone bricks without issues.

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Q: Life span and frailness of the Light Trays? Are they secure and structured enough for repeated use and is there any repair to them for lighting? If it fails, is it all or nothing or does part the panel work? Was wondering and lastly, if they do fail, can we buy them again, either from you or from a different source?

A: (Elye) I can't speak to the electronic side of things, other than to say that we certainly intend this to be a high-quality product and it will be manufactured from high-quality materials. But the structure will be sturdy ABS, maybe not as indestructible as Dwarvenite but still something that should last for years of regular use (think of Lego blocks, for example). And yes, we'll be selling these in our web store in the future, so you should be able to buy more later. (Though the price will be higher.)

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Q: How much weight will the light panel hold?

A: Nate stacked 4 polystone large pieces in a tower and it didn’t cause any sort of warping. He stated there was a reinforcement in the center of the unit and that it was sturdier than he initially thought. Check out the 6/26 livestream at around the 33:15 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTPUhLl7WFw&t=5424s

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Q: Can you try colored acetate on the panels?

A: check out the light panel video for this visual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgECEpevNG0

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Q: What do the seams in the light panel with the phantasmal filter on top?

A: Check out the live stream on 6/26/ at the 1:17:17 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTPUhLl7WFw

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Re: KS6.66 - LIGHT PANELS

Post by JenneyOC » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:37 pm

Q: A question about the light panels. I see that the connector between them is very thin. How fragile are they and is there a chance to get a few spares with each one. I can see them breaking off and not being able to replace them. I think it would be better to have an additional connector to take the stress of the electrical connection.

A: Yes, we will provide additional connectors. That is the current plan at this point in product development.

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Q: Is there a weight limit for the light panels if we want to have a vertical build with a glowing magma on bottom level, do we need to worry about where we put our risers and such or are both edges and center of light panels very sturdy for doing multiple tiers?

A: They’re all prototypes for now, so it’s not like we can do destructive stress testing on them to find a maximum weight. The build team suggests that building at least two layers deep on them shouldn’t be a problem.
If you’re talking about suspending another whole level above it on pillars, that would transmit the whole weight of your upper tiers into whatever’s under the pillars as stress points. Maybe don’t do that. Position your pillars on top of plain tiles in the bottom level, or on the tabletop itself?

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Q: Is it feasible to have settings for the light trays (ala Xmas lights)? Slow dimming for a breathing look or an option to have rippling effects? Perhaps next gen light tray if not the first round?

A: The light panels are dimmable by hand, but there's not a way to automate ongoing variations. Maybe next gen, or a future add-on of some sort!

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Q: Will the light panels/transformer work with EU standard outlets? aka will they work with 230v 50hz outlets.

A: The panels will work with EU power. You'll just need to get an adapter appropriate to your particular location (available for less than five quid from Amazon and elsewhere).

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Q: From the stream last night we were shown what it looks like to have the light panel seams with the phantasmal filters, and they do stand out some. How then are the videos done for Encounter 2? In the video it looks like you are actually using a 12x12 and a 4x4 instead of the 3 8x8 it is supposed to come with. Also it doesn't look like there are any seams in the river other then where the 12x12 and 4x8 meet and we just see light peaking through instead of a dark seam. So can we please get a video or images showing what the encounter will look like when we build it with the pieces we will get? Looking at it I can't help but feel like we are being a little misled in both images and videos by you using different pieces then what we are getting and your light panels don't seem to have seams (possibly you used one large panel instead of daisy chained 8x8).

And to help clarify, I talking about the seams between two or more light panels when you have the phantasmal filters going across them. The River of Styx is longer then a single 8x8 sheet and therefore you must use multiple sheets, and due to the current design there will be a noticeable seam where they meet. All of the images and videos you do not see this, instead seeing what looks to be a larger light panel or one without seams. Also the phantasmal filters used look to be different.

A: (Eyle) So, I can't speak to the specific prototypes used during the filming of particular videos, since I wasn't part of that process, and we've been using the most up-to-date prototypes as we go - with new updated pieces arriving during the course of the campaign. But Nate has certainly done his best to demo the light panels and filters extensively, both in the hands-on video dedicated to the panels, and in the latest couple livestreams.
I can say specifically that the final version of our panels will be cast in translucent white (including the sides, so no grey edges).

I'm sure it will still be possible to faintly see the borders where panels meet (depending on the level of illumination and what you've put over them); that's a limitation of the technology and I believe it would be true of any light panels on the market. It's also in the nature of any modular terrain - you can see where the pieces meet; it's the price you pay for being able to combine things in countless different ways. But the modularity also means incredible versatility, and the alternative (in this case, a single table-sized light panel) is not a realistic option for most folks, including us!

Just to be clear, I'm not claiming that the joints between the panels will be completely invisible; I don't think that's possible given the limitations of the technology, and would be true of any light panels on the market. But the while edges should certainly help make them much less visible.

I have that barge too, and am also looking forward to creating a big phantasmal river... Going to be sending my PCs to the Shadowfell ere long and they'll have to cross dark waters there..

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Q: Knightess, can you find out how many Light Panels they're using in the Live Game Build, please?

A: Two light panels up front and then a massive light box from amazon for the spot the other five would go. We don’t have enough DF Light Panels to cover the whole thing (we only have 4x prototypes)

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Re: KS6.66 - LIGHT PANELS

Post by JenneyOC » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:40 pm

NOTE: These are a series of similar questions have have the same answer currently.


Q: Has the inclusion of power cords been canvased yet?
I am torn between the 7 light panels vs 1+5 but with that combo you get extra cable to have two separate light features happening concurrently. If power cords available as add on I would do 7 plus extra power cord.

Q: Another backer request: for a cable version of the pin connector between light panels, so one power cord + multiple panels can potentially light more than one area (w/non-adjacent panels). Seems like a reasonable idea and shouldn't be too expensive.

Q: Is there going to be a cord availability to place between the the light panels so we can get more coverage from the light panels and not use so many dimmer control power cords. Make any sense ?

Q:Also will we be able to get extra connection plugs that go between the light panels for the daisy chain.

Q: On the light panels placement graphic how many power cords are used ? It looks like seven ,I don't see how to daisy the offset placement in a chain. Looks like a lot of plugs in the wall .

Q: what size they are like are they 2-pin JST RE connectors? ect... there are lots of wires out there

A: Since they're still in the prototype stage, we can't say yet exactly what kind of connectors will be used. We'll have to iterate on the design and see what works best. JST connectors have the advantage of stability, but they're not really intended to be plugged and unplugged hundreds of times and I find they can wear out and then they're not so stable. Barrel jacks are simple and sturdy, I think those are an option. There's also no way to cram a barrel jack in the wrong way and damage the socket.

We definitely see the need for power jumper cables of some sort as an option to connect the panels, and will most likely find a way to offer them if an easily obtained off the shelf option isn't readily available somewhere. But since they're still in the development & prototype stage, we can't say exactly what they'll be yet.

These products are ALL still currently in development, so at this time additional add-ons for power cords or alternate connectivity packs have not been developed. If/when they do appear, it will be in the pledge manager, but at this time we are unable to confirm anything of these requests.

A: (Nate) We're working out how we're going to daisy chain them currently. Trying to get the maximum flexibility in terms of how they can connect and be spaced apart. We'll keep you posted as it evolves. We'll most-likely include short extension cables with the packs, but nothing is set in stone yet.

But rest assured, we'll make them cool and as modular as we can!

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