Still Don't Have KS5

User avatar
AnimeSensei
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 5067
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:03 pm
Location: South Weber, UT

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by AnimeSensei » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:56 pm

I spoke with Stefan and Nate at GenCon; the plan actually was to have the KS 1/2 Caverns and 1/2 Forests, but over time more and more caverns got added (they're artists and go where their inspiration takes them, both for fun ideas and functionality) and the forests got put on the back burner a little. Also, I know Lady Sabelle's shoulder went into fullblown pain mode and her insurance was giving her the run around to see a doctor. She said the 6x6 sculpts were simply too much to handle with her shoulder. Chuck even made her a special "sculpting armrest" to help but in the end, Elye did a lot of Dreadhollow due to the shoulder issue. So between the caverns getting a lot of inspiration and Lady Sabelle trying to find a doctor (curse you, insurance industry!) and that pushing the forests back, that's why Dreadhollow is smaller and a little later in the development schedule, as far as I have been told. I know they started working on the forests around fall last year, so they weren't a last second addition.
102 Resin and 212 Dwarvenite Sets/Packs Owned

nielsene
Ogre
Ogre
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:57 pm
Location: Boston-ish

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by nielsene » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:30 pm

Law wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:01 am
I would have liked it if DF had delayed KS6, but given how successful it appears to be, I can't say that delay would have been the "right" call. Ultimately this is a business and the business is doing well.

By way of constructive criticism, I'd say I have the following concerns:

1) There were mixed messages leading up to the launch which made it difficult to know what was going on and created confusion and maybe even mistrust. We were told, for example, that KS6 would push back by a month due to delays with KS5 shipping - yet when KS6 began, some things were clearly not ready (no pricing on the Forest until the final week, for example).
The way I reconcile that in my mind (which has no implied relation to reality :) ), is that if KS6 had launched when initially scheduled perhaps there would only have been 14 encounters. Under my mental model Dreadhallow was added in due to new sculpts happening during that time, which explains why it was a scramble.

User avatar
AnimeSensei
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 5067
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:03 pm
Location: South Weber, UT

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by AnimeSensei » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:15 pm

FL, another thing to consider is if you are thinking of just buying at retail in a year, you may not be guaranteed that what you want will be in stock and how long it will take for a restock. I mean, look at the castle pieces, CBS, KS2 caverns, and KS1 pieces. It's kind of a crapshoot as to when you can get what you want, and with both a price jump from KS pricing to retail, and then maybe having to split your KS6 retail order up in multiple shipments over time due to stocking issues, it just seems like a huge headache. To me, at least.
102 Resin and 212 Dwarvenite Sets/Packs Owned

User avatar
FattyLumpkin
Orc
Orc
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by FattyLumpkin » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:54 am

Law wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:01 am
I would have liked it if DF had delayed KS6, but given how successful it appears to be, I can't say that delay would have been the "right" call. Ultimately this is a business and the business is doing well.
Yes. On both counts. I'm clearly in the minority on my specific concerns and that's okay. What they're doing is clearly working!

Law
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 4814
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:26 am

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by Law » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:01 am

I would have liked it if DF had delayed KS6, but given how successful it appears to be, I can't say that delay would have been the "right" call. Ultimately this is a business and the business is doing well.

By way of constructive criticism, I'd say I have the following concerns:

1) There were mixed messages leading up to the launch which made it difficult to know what was going on and created confusion and maybe even mistrust. We were told, for example, that KS6 would push back by a month due to delays with KS5 shipping - yet when KS6 began, some things were clearly not ready (no pricing on the Forest until the final week, for example).

2) There was a perceived unwillingness to be frank about delivery predictions. I phrase all of that very deliberately. It's a prediction, not a promise. And it's delivery we're talking about - nothing else. DF would tell us that some things had shipped from the factory, for example - but despite the fact that they had far more experience and better insight than most backers about what that translated to in terms of actual receipt by backers, they didn't fill in the blanks. How long does the warehouse need to check QC and begin shipping? What is the timeframe between "ships from the factory" to "backers receive their product"? Again - predictions are fine, no promises necessary. But the silence felt like DF didn't want to admit "look, we said May, but it'll be more like September."

In the same vein, there was unwillingness to be frank about what the delay with things like elevation trays actually meant. There were huge delays here - initial shipments that were about 2-4 months past the one year point, then other delays that really pushed us out. And that's fine - it would hardly be the first KS to be late, and it's remarkable and impressive that it would be the first DF KS to be this late. But the way it was handled felt like DF was hiding from it.

3) Finally, there were mixed messages that kinda felt like buck-passing about what was being done. We were told everyone was really busy and doing all they could, but then we were also told that the team we see - Nate, Nina, Stefan, Erin, Elye, etc. - is almost entirely a sculpting/painting/design team, that has nothing to do with shipping. That's the warehouse folk. Which makes sense, fine. But it also means that "we've been so busy with KS6! And GenCon!" doesn't explain the delay. Because the warehouse and shipping staff aren't busy with that stuff, are they? And if the design team IS needed on shipping issues - to supervise, review, answer questions, confirm, whatever - then don't say that they aren't involved and KS6 isn't contributing to the KS5 shipping delays.

It's a lot of mixed messages and I wish communication had been smoother. Especially because the takeaway, I know, is "people are upset that it's late" - and that's not actually the complaint here. It was "late" months ago, but people only started to get irked once the mixed messages and confusion began.

User avatar
FattyLumpkin
Orc
Orc
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by FattyLumpkin » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:40 am

Thank you for the honest input guys (DevGuy, oddbender, kitenerd, etc). Kitenerd, no worries. You do a great job of keeping up the good reputation of the DF community. And I had no idea there were problems with the elevation boxes. Sorry, I've not kept up with the forums this time around.

Originally, I was wondering if others might have the same reservations because it does feel a little goofy to taking this "stance." I really don't think DF would rip anyone off. And its not really a way to showcase anything but it just rings a discomfort bell for me; one that goes beyond DF, as a consumer. At this point I should take the advice a few of you have provided and that's just to do what I find most comfortable. Thanks for that.

Talistran, please stop. My words were accurate. The "fail" word you keep using may be yours, not mine. I simply stated it was not delivered yet. If you're going to bang away at this, at least try to be an honest actor.

User avatar
kitenerd
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 3391
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:47 pm
Location: Redwood Empire

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by kitenerd » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:25 pm

FattyLumpkin wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:57 pm
Some people have decided to put words in my mouth or ascribing meaning to my OP that does not exist. I am not asking to "have it both ways," whatever that means.

I'm just going to leave my original thoughts out there instead of adding to them, least they offer further opportunities for distortion.
)
Sorry if my words came off as critical - not my intent - more an acknowledgement of the new reality of DF. We have clearly moved into territory so complex that a 12 month cycle is nearly impossible.

There were several threads about this in the months leading up to KS6 and DF actually pushed back the announced launch. They are having problems with some things (elevation box) and that has caused inordinate delays. MY things are coming in three separate shipments - i cannot even begin to imagine how much that is costing them that they did not budget for.

I feel for the folks, especially RoW, who don't have their pledges yet... i know how anxious we all get about our toys

Again, i apologize for misconstruing words or intent.
"Miniatures?, sure sign of a petty mind!" - 'The Women' 1939

oddbender
Orc
Orc
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:38 pm

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by oddbender » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:05 pm

FattyLumpkin wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:28 pm
...So I won't join KS6. It's not that I think DF will do anything shady but I just can't bring myself to join KS6 until the last order is fulfilled. Anyone else thinking like this?
FattyLumpkin, I completely hear you. I believe that I have a reputation with people who know me as a person of principle who will make a point as opposed to going against my principle. I also believe this practice works when you have a direct and personal relationship to those parties involved. Outside of that and perhaps more importantly, my principles matter mostly to me in the end.

I do not believe that you can have such a relationship here, that your not backing really makes a point to anyone but you. I'm not saying that DF does not hear or read your displeasure, but that they cannot really do anything directly about it. And KS6 is and will be successful anyway. I'm afraid that KS5 will get delivered, you will be pleased with it, but KS6 will have passed you by.

I am backing KS6, however, I have received most of my KS5 pledge.

Talistran
Ogre
Ogre
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:52 pm

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by Talistran » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:33 pm

DevGuy wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:16 pm
FattLumpikin I think you should go with your gut. If it doesn’t sit right with you to back KS6 without KS5 in hand - put a dollar on KS6 so that you can get updates, and once you get KS5 in hand, ask Jay to add you to the PM (if it isn’t automatic).
Agreed, totally. Don't do something you are not comfortable with. But if you don't pledge $10, you don't get access to the Pledge Manager. So, maybe risk $10 :)

DevGuy
Orc
Orc
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:21 am

Re: Still Don't Have KS5

Post by DevGuy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:16 pm

FattLumpikin I think you should go with your gut. If it doesn’t sit right with you to back KS6 without KS5 in hand - put a dollar on KS6 so that you can get updates, and once you get KS5 in hand, ask Jay to add you to the PM (if it isn’t automatic).

Post Reply

Return to “Kickstarter 6 Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest