LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by zenako » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:32 am

@arsthein Being relatively new to the DF portion of the hobby I have a couple of other perspectives to toss out. I recall seeing all the resin stuff but never went for it at that time. It is only in the Dwarvenite era that I have become seriously active in building a collection of terrain. So for me, each new KS of stuff was really new stuff and I did not have to worry about how it compared to the old resin. I suspect most new collectors have that same perspective. DF needed to grow beyond the limits that resin put on them production wise, and the injection molded designs allowed them to do that.

A challenge they would face with "different" designs for core pieces like walls and floors, etc. Is how do they make them different enough to attract old timers looking to augment their collection and not provide something that appears to be somewhat niche that new buyers are not inclined to go for? For example, making a new set of dungeons walls and floors more Ancient like Greek or Roman, might appeal to some, but be too specific for many others. I also have a hard time picturing the terrain or schemes in most fantasy lit or games. They tend to be generic in many ways and as such the current generic dungeons can serve those game settings as well as any.

Perhaps specific suggestions as to new pieces that expand options but also could add flavor to old sets as well. For example, the Epic Stairs are a cool new building option, that fits with old and new and is a fresh design for going up a floor. Would a straight EPIC stairway be of interest vs the curved version? Perhaps. Another aspect that I am sure they consider is gameplay and being able to support minis at various locations on the piece. If you play with the burrows some, you will find that they have a number of flat spots or support rocks/features on those ramps that lets minis partially climb those risers. Very clever and very useful for gaming. Super steep stairs like i some of the castle and CBS sets do not allow for any minis to be part way up them, but stairs with actual slots under each tread allow most common minis with bases to be inserted on the climb where they need to be if the slot is thin enough to retain the mini in place.

Other companies jumped into the market and have filled a few niches - like Secret Weapon did some mining terrain that was fairly basic but clearly meant to be a mine. It meshes pretty well with DF on a gaming table as long as you keep both types pretty separate. Just have the Mine entrance interact with the DF terrain and make the mine all SW. Not sure how much they produced, but it was a much smaller dollar run and likely more limited appeal.

Perhaps DF could see about being more proactive about soliciting ideas for new things, that folks want, but they then have to be careful about IP and being accused of taking it. So the ideas cannot be too specific or they might have conflicts. If enough folks indicate an interest in some theme, then I am sure they would consider it. Folks were asking for more forests (with the thoughts of building on more of the old style design) but DF went beyond that with the whole new DH theme and the new designs and bigger pieces. Interesting fodder for along focus group discussion on building and sustaining a market for your goods.

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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by arsthein » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:45 am

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:49 am
Great analysis arsthein :)

Will look at removing batteries of anything we use and put away.

Enjoyed your techosourcerous terminology a lot :)
We often fail to remember key technical terms so often use phrases like 'spring-thingy' or 'springy thing', but bunnies get the gist so its not too critical.
XD Thanks my lords, bunnies are awesome like that. Great fan of Usagi Yojimbo here, pass my regards if he happens to be on your community. :D

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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by arsthein » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:31 am

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:53 am
Very pleased for you arsthein that it was your fault :D
Ok that does not read well, but having been in similar positions its such a relief that it turns out to be a 'layer 8' problem which you can easily fix :)
XDD don't worry, I know EXACTLY what you mean. I was hoping all fingers crossed it was my fault and was something that could be fixed, somehow. I HATE to waste stuff, so even if I was sent replacements it would be hurting in the back of my mind to have pieces broken catching dust (even they been able to be used turned off). I'm just crazy like that.
Rabbit Burner wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:53 am
In other news: The MoaM will look amazing!
Damn right you know it'll do!!!!! I plan to use it as a mood lamp in my house outside of gaming!!!! I even considered taking several just for that! (I assume MoaM stands for "Mother of all Mushrooms"?).
Rabbit Burner wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:53 am
Evolve or die, if DF does not push the envelope then they will be caught by the competition, 3D printers are getting better, STL files are cheap to obtain, as 3D printers become more and more prevalent then the consumables start to come down in price.

DF has to stay in front of this tsunami of cheap alternatives.

What 3D printers cannot do is print LEDs, though with clever designs you could easily add them post printing, same with magnets.

All tabletop manufacturers have this looming on the horizon.
Well, here I have to respectfully disagree, not to argue with my favourite most gracious pack of cute feral beasts that is, but I think the gap is being closed because other companies are "picking the slack" and doing something DF is (almost) not doing anymore: creating truly variety in DUNGEON styles.

DF had over other companies two main things: one is the incredible beauty and detail of alternate styles of dungeon (Den of Evil, Realm of the Ancients, Catacombs, not to mention MBS), and this has been mostly abandon.

I think DF hit the right idea (to me) in several instances:

CBS Sewers are awesome and, although the painting is not spectacular, I find it very realistic and functional. Sadly, the concept was very bare bones in variety of pieces and hasn't seen any further development so far.

The Burrows were the right idea too, is just that, for me, fell to far from the construction blocks I like to use (2x2 or 4x4 walls, floors and corners).

Forsaken Shrine was the right-on-the-money idea to me, but with the problem in the standard paint scheme (very disappointing to me, and the only one that will be sold at the store at some point), it can be a serious source of frustration.

Marble is freakin' awesome, but is just a repaint, limited edition, and I think it could had been exploited further in 2x2 floors (with the pattern of the daises) and the columns of the vaulted pieces, to begin with.

The Underdoom caverns are the right idea, but is just (mostly) an alternate paint (aside from Crystal Caves if you want to consider them part of the environment, but they are plaged with LEDs, which is a divisive point many will consider).

Variety is key to me, and I suspect is driving many sales for other companies. The only reason I've spent money in other companies like MiniWorlds, Nomad Terrain, Rampage Dungeon (only floors to add variety since I don't like the other factors of the building system), and Lunesdargent "Path of Osiris" (this one I'm still only considering it, didn't purchased any yet), is because they create really different stuff to what DF has done until now. They give me the variety that DF used to give me.

Don't get me wrong, DF still creates massive amounts of variety in accesories and bling pieces, but talking about bread and butter they seem to concentrate now in architectural nuances (elevation, organic look of caverns and so on) more than variety of architectural styles. The Dungeon of Doom bread and butter, is nothing to me but regular dungeon brick (with the very very basic paint scheme) with very simple vaults, nothing the like of the sets I've mentioned. I get that it was clever to make something that could be mixed with regular dwarvenite dungeons, but even so I think it is getting past time to catch up in variety, and that it would be wise for DF to start creating truly new styles. They could do in only one kickstarter several start-up styles (4 o 5 or them, basic pieces +doors, columns, and pretty frequent accesories), and the more successful ones could see then futher development. I would go BANANAS in a kickstarter like that.

The second thing that made DF the best is that the resins sets were truly "expertly painted", whereas now the painted pieces announced as such are very far from that notion (I think Cities and Castles were far superior in painting than dungeon and cavern pieces thus far).

To summarize, I think DF would stay ahead by sheer sculpting talent and creativity, and quality of painting if it was brought back to a level, at least closer, to the resin sets (quality we know they can put in far superior amounts compared to other companies). Remember, 3D printers don't create prepainted pieces either.

I felt in love with DF because what I got out-of-the-box was spectacular. I think prices should go higher to achieve a greater factory painting quality, in completely different dungeon styles, and you still could offer them unpainted way cheaper for the painting-inclined DFers. I know I would pay a lot more for the same pieces, just for quality of painting. I have the money, is just that DF is not getting to convince me to spend it. I want the stuff I know they can make.

Greetings!

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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by Rabbit Burner » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:49 am

Great analysis arsthein :)

Will look at removing batteries of anything we use and put away.

Enjoyed your techosourcerous terminology a lot :)
We often fail to remember key technical terms so often use phrases like 'spring-thingy' or 'springy thing', but bunnies get the gist so its not too critical.
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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by arsthein » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:40 am

LadySabelle wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:31 pm
I'm so glad it was something that could be fixed. Thank you for taking the time to send us an email at customersupport@dwarvenforge.com

I had completely missed this thread and would not have been able to help if it weren't for the fact that I am working customer support right now.

So if anyone is in a situation where something isn't working, or you just have a question or concern, please send us an email and we'll do what we can to get you the response you need. And pictures, full names, order numbers, SKUs, and any other information you might have, will help keep the email tennis matches to a minimum. Thank you.
Thanks to you again mylady! The idea of the pictures was Astolat's, so credit goes to him, I'm not sure I would have taken that route if nobody had taken interest in helping me investigate. So, I figured, since the work of the pictures was already here in the forum, I'll bring it to your attention.

By the way, to follow up, I was testing and opening the rest of my LED pieces (a couple of Grand Vaulted Walls, Sysuul statue, and the 4 corners of the Forsaken Shrine) and all of them worked perfectly. It's kind of difficult to pop out the battery for the first time, but from there, replace them subsequent times is cake. I even put back the tabs so the batteries last longer.
Rabbit Burner wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:53 am
Yay happy ending :)

Our take on the batteries is don't removed them, period!
Well ok you need to replace dead ones and now we all know how to replace them correctly - double yay :D
About this, man, I have to report: I opened too my non-Dungeon-of-Doom LED pieces to check on them (2 X Catacomb Sets, 1 X Catacomb 2 Set, but I forgot to check on the Castle Gateway, which I'll be opening today).

1 of the Catacomb Sets 1 is older than the other (I think between 2 and 3 years now), and the LED corners had their batteries (I hope this is the right term in english), sulphated, so I proceed to remove them and disposing of them (this LED Catacomb Corners had been used in game, tabs removed, used turned on, and stored without putting the tab back and without removing the batteries). The pieces are ok though, and they still work ok with new batteries (they use 3 LV44 each). But may this serve as a warning, I think the wise move is not to store LED pieces with the batteries more than a year, even used or unused.

Experience obtained: if you are going to put the tab back in this older LED pieces is much easier to insert the tab on the (how do you call the spiral metal springy thing?) then put 2 batteries and this is the useful tip: then insert the last third battery between the 2 already in place, then put the lid, passing the tab head through the gap for it, and screw it in.

Funny rare finding: the polarity in the Catacomb LEDs corner from my oldest set is inverse to the one in the newest set. In the older, you can see a "plus" (positive) and minus (negative) sign in the plastic cover of the base of the corner LED piece, being the "+" sign the side of the spring-thingy. Well, I have to ignore this symbols and put the batteries in this set the other way (positive pole of the battery, the flat one, to the non-spring-thingy contact) o.O!. In the newest set, the schematics engraved in the plastic base of the corner LED pieces is different: They have a depiction of the batteries in the lid itself, instead of the simbols "+" and "-" on the cover. These do go as the depiction shows, positive pole of the batteries against the (again, sorry for not finding the term) spring-thingy. I tested both ways and this is the way they work. How rare is this??

What a mess for an explanation, I know, hope is comprehensible enough.

Greetings!

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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by LadySabelle » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:31 pm

arsthein wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:40 am
YAAAY! IT'S ALIIIIIVE!!! (Thunder strikes)

Lady Sabelle to the rescue! Thank you so very much mylady!
I'm so glad it was something that could be fixed. Thank you for taking the time to send us an email at customersupport@dwarvenforge.com

I had completely missed this thread and would not have been able to help if it weren't for the fact that I am working customer support right now.

So if anyone is in a situation where something isn't working, or you just have a question or concern, please send us an email and we'll do what we can to get you the response you need. And pictures, full names, order numbers, SKUs, and any other information you might have, will help keep the email tennis matches to a minimum. Thank you.
Unless I specifically state that my information is directly from Valoria, my comments are just my own opinions.
http://ladysabelledesigns.com/

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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by Rabbit Burner » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:53 am

Yay happy ending :)

A picture tells a thousand words - great save Lady S.

Very pleased for you arsthein that it was your fault :D
Ok that does not read well, but having been in similar positions its such a relief that it turns out to be a 'layer 8' problem which you can easily fix :)

Our take on the batteries is don't removed them, period!
Well ok you need to replace dead ones and now we all know how to replace them correctly - double yay :D

The other stuff:

Evolve or die, if DF does not push the envelope then they will be caught by the competition, 3D printers are getting better, STL files are cheap to obtain, as 3D printers become more and more prevalent then the consumables start to come down in price.

DF has to stay in front of this tsunami of cheap alternatives.

What 3D printers cannot do is print LEDs, though with clever designs you could easily add them post printing, same with magnets.

All tabletop manufacturers have this looming on the horizon.

We believe DF has to do this, but it will lead to failed experiments and some dubious QC as pieces become more and more complicated. Like AS points out the organic nature of caverns deep will make spotting warped parts much harder, so the QC for KSVI may well appear pretty ropey.

We have faith that DF will be able to cater for the more rigorous QC requirement and to keep ahead of the 3D Print terrain tsunami.

In other news: The MoaM will look amazing!
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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by arsthein » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:40 am

YAAAY! IT'S ALIIIIIVE!!! (Thunder strikes)

Lady Sabelle to the rescue! Thank you so very much mylady!

That was the problem. Pretty obvious in retrospective. I was not paying attention to the fact that the pins should go on both sides of the battery. I'm not used to disc batteries and that fact got forgotten because the few that I've used over the years have the contacts put in other manners so you didn't have to worry about sliding the battery bellow the positive pins, you just slapped it in and you were done. Puting the smashed pins in their original position has been really easy just with a plain screwdriver.

So it was beyond critical fumble (dexterity, that is) but still a TRIPLE critical fumble! (perception, inteligence, and knowledge: <basic common sense about batteries>). Muwahaha... the life DM was generous giving me chances, but I'm just such an embarrassement to myself XP.

I knew it had to be (in some of the pieces, at least) something I was completely missing out, four pieces (and one from another kickstarter!) was too much "success" screwing them up, having been so careful to not yank the cables and stuff.

Of course, now the giant mushroom is back on the PM (sigh). Man, I still hate to deal with batteries for my dungeon terrain but... holy mjölnir... these KS V LEDs are cool as f****ck!!!!

I'll continue to test the rest of the items soon but, now, how cool is that I've been offered to have replacements even that it was just a spectacular display of sheer stupidity on my part? This never ceases to amaze me.

Again, Lady Sabelle, my very best thank you for your help and patience. And to Astolat and Anime Sensei for your advice and psychological support in general.

Funny (and beautiful) how the world changes color after you get help to fix stuff bothering you (even that superficial in the grand scheme of things)... oh, wait, I forgot to turn off the chromatic orb...

Greetings!

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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by LadySabelle » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:50 pm

I think I see the problem. You've smashed down the 2 metal tabs on one side that were meant to make contact with the positive side of the battery. You can see the tabs here:
Image

When you put the battery in, you need to make sure it goes under these tabs.
Image

You can see the correct way the battery should look here:
Image

Try carefully bending the metal tabs back up. If they break or still don't work after you've fixed them, contact us again and we'll get you taken care of.
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Re: LED & Battery Life SPan & Maintenance Question

Post by arsthein » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:47 pm

Here goes the pics, I've tried my best to have them show a couple of angles and to be clean enough, we'll see.
Attachments
VaultedWall1-pic01.JPG
Vaulted Wall 1 - pic 01
VaultedWall1-pic01.JPG (50.9 KiB) Viewed 1018 times
VaultedWall1-pic02.JPG
Vaulted Wall 1 - pic 02
VaultedWall1-pic02.JPG (50.16 KiB) Viewed 1018 times
VaultedWall2-pic01.JPG
Vaulted Wall 2 - pic 01
VaultedWall2-pic01.JPG (46.14 KiB) Viewed 1018 times
VaultedWall2-pic02.JPG
Vaulted Wall 2 - pic 02
VaultedWall2-pic02.JPG (45.69 KiB) Viewed 1018 times
ObeliskFloorSocket-pic01.JPG
Obelisk Floor Socket pic 01
ObeliskFloorSocket-pic01.JPG (53.36 KiB) Viewed 1018 times
ObeliskFloorSocket-pic02.JPG
Obelisk Floor Socket pic 02
ObeliskFloorSocket-pic02.JPG (47.33 KiB) Viewed 1018 times
ChromaticOrbFloorSocket-pic01.JPG
Orb Floor Socket pic 01
ChromaticOrbFloorSocket-pic01.JPG (45.69 KiB) Viewed 1018 times
ChromaticOrbFloorSocket-pic02.JPG
Orb Floor Socket pic 02
ChromaticOrbFloorSocket-pic02.JPG (43.72 KiB) Viewed 1018 times

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