Tenfold dungeon kickstart

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Rabbit Burner
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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by Rabbit Burner » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:25 am

MrMorden wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:58 am
Rabbit Burner wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:37 am

....

More importantly we don't have clown shoes either :(
Looking back, my comments look a bit "prickly", which I didn't intend. I should have put the standard disclaimer at the bottom that my comments were simply my opinion, your mileage may vary, void where prohibited by law, and all that. There is surely a market for this by the numbers, I just question the logic of the 443 backers. :D

Given how bright and weird tennis shoes are these days, most of us don't need clown shoes to get the same effect.
Its all good :) all opinions are valid.

Over the years we have learnt that we can be wrong (surprising I know) and try hard to be open minded and see differing perspectives - but we do like to play devils advocate :evil:

Tennis shoes, golfing trousers - half way there already :D
kitenerd wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:26 am
...

How awesome would it be if this became part of boxed set modules. where the box contained module, minis and several other boxes that made the layout (like WotC's Legend of Drizzt with walls) - i think that is the sweet spot for this idea - turn a $15 module into a $45 module with a dozen minis and a few printed boxes
This should be compulsory as would get more players to start about thinking 3D terrain.

Early GW fantasy Warhammer Boxed games had card buildings and monsters, how many thought that's cool but a little flimsy, I wonder if I could get a plastic one (obviously Dwarvenite these days).
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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by MrMorden » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:58 am

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:37 am

To cut a long list of arguments that attempt to offer alternatives to your reasoning MrM, which we think are valid, we have decided to say the following:

In this Forum most of what you say is valid :)
But this is a Kickstarter where 443 backers say different and show there is clearly a market.

More importantly we don't have clown shoes either :(
Looking back, my comments look a bit "prickly", which I didn't intend. I should have put the standard disclaimer at the bottom that my comments were simply my opinion, your mileage may vary, void where prohibited by law, and all that. There is surely a market for this by the numbers, I just question the logic of the 443 backers. :D

Given how bright and weird tennis shoes are these days, most of us don't need clown shoes to get the same effect.

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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by kitenerd » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:26 am

I think this is a super clever idea - not for me, but definitely cool

How awesome would it be if this became part of boxed set modules. where the box contained module, minis and several other boxes that made the layout (like WotC's Legend of Drizzt with walls) - i think that is the sweet spot for this idea - turn a $15 module into a $45 module with a dozen minis and a few printed boxes
"Miniatures?, sure sign of a petty mind!" - 'The Women' 1939

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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by Rabbit Burner » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:37 am

MrMorden wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:28 am
Saxon1974 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:05 pm
Yes but you also have to have a 3D printer which many of us don't. Then you have to paint the terrain.
I consider the second point kind of valid, you do have to paint it *if* you care about painted terrain. But that's true of any 3d terrain at the lower end of the pricing scale. The terrain in this KS isn't really 3d, it's just a box with printed sides. If you are really averse to painting, Printing in black or dark gray and a quick drybrush can suffice. Or lay it out unpainted, most players don't care. Or stick to prepainted DF.

I'm just having a hard time seeing what need this KS fills for those who already have access to DF terrain (vast majority on this forum); if you have that, why would you ever use cardboard? If you have to travel where you can't carry DF, just roll up a $30 wet erase game mat that can represent unlimited setups. I did well with nothing but that for about 20 years.

Your first point I consider invalid. Sure, many don't have 3d printers. But that's a choice, just like many don't have clown shoes. It's not like ownership is some kind of immense hurdle; at the current pricing for decent quality 3d printers, anybody who can afford Dwarven Forge terrain, or to make a full pledge in this KS for that matter ($180), can afford one, and then print literally unlimited terrain for pennies a piece. That's much more cost effective than paying $180 for a series of cardboard boxes.

I suppose some folks are unwilling to do any "work" for their hobby harder than opening a shrink wrapped box, and those people will always have sharply limited options for affordable game environments (I hesitate to call a printed box "terrain"), like this KS.
To cut a long list of arguments that attempt to offer alternatives to your reasoning MrM, which we think are valid, we have decided to say the following:

In this Forum most of what you say is valid :)
But this is a Kickstarter where 443 backers say different and show there is clearly a market.

We are monitoring this as we are always on the look out for different terrain, not necessarily to play in but to take pictures of our minis in as part of a story. So something that looks like a different environment than we currently have, that is cheap and easy to store will always get our ears twitching.

We will very likely let this one slide as we are not yet in a position to start our 'Story in Pictures using the medium of Video and Voice acting' project off the ground. We have plenty of environments ready to use when we do.

More importantly we don't have clown shoes either :(
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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by MrMorden » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:28 am

Saxon1974 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:05 pm
Yes but you also have to have a 3D printer which many of us don't. Then you have to paint the terrain.
I consider the second point kind of valid, you do have to paint it *if* you care about painted terrain. But that's true of any 3d terrain at the lower end of the pricing scale. The terrain in this KS isn't really 3d, it's just a box with printed sides. If you are really averse to painting, Printing in black or dark gray and a quick drybrush can suffice. Or lay it out unpainted, most players don't care. Or stick to prepainted DF.

I'm just having a hard time seeing what need this KS fills for those who already have access to DF terrain (vast majority on this forum); if you have that, why would you ever use cardboard? If you have to travel where you can't carry DF, just roll up a $30 wet erase game mat that can represent unlimited setups. I did well with nothing but that for about 20 years.

Your first point I consider invalid. Sure, many don't have 3d printers. But that's a choice, just like many don't have clown shoes. It's not like ownership is some kind of immense hurdle; at the current pricing for decent quality 3d printers, anybody who can afford Dwarven Forge terrain, or to make a full pledge in this KS for that matter ($180), can afford one, and then print literally unlimited terrain for pennies a piece. That's much more cost effective than paying $180 for a series of cardboard boxes.

I suppose some folks are unwilling to do any "work" for their hobby harder than opening a shrink wrapped box, and those people will always have sharply limited options for affordable game environments (I hesitate to call a printed box "terrain"), like this KS.

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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by LordDust » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:00 pm

There was a company that made some interesting printable terrain that folds flat and can then be returned to shape by pulling up on one part. It had a slightly surreal style to it. I thought it would be fantastic to use for the ethereal or astral planes or something similar. I need to dig their name up and see if they're still kicking...

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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by zenako » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:46 am

Agreed a harder sell on this forum for folks with "real" 3D terrain. The challenge would be even mixing the two with any degree of satisfaction. Like some others, this one is a pass for me. The concept is nice and the fact that you can quickly set up the rooms and that they are designed to effectively nest pretty well to minimize storage needs shows some good design thought into the product and end user needs. It is a clear step up from some of the other purely 2D offerings I have seen (and have from the old WotC and Pathfinder products).

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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by LordDust » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:39 am

kodiakbear wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:57 am
Next they can come out with the hat box series with round rooms from 24" down to 8". (Actually not a bad idea.)


In all seriousness, just so you know my positive comments about this are not from me in this universe where DF exists for me, nor bound to this particular KS. I was talking about this type of product being interesting to the vast number of gamers who want a product right out of a box. I can see through their eyes the joy of buying a published module and a dungeon in a box and the ppm and just playing the game. While in this universe I love to write my own adventures, design my dungeons and occasionally paint minis. I see others who do not, others who love turning toilet paper rolls into majestic forests and all of those in between.

I have no stake in this KS succeeding or failing. If they find the backers to make it happen so be it.
I think quite a few of the crowd you're referring to would likely balk at the pricing though. They may get enough to fund, but in my experience most of those who like this kind of terrain are a bit more the "DIY" types.

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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by Rabbit Burner » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:28 am

This one is always going to a be tough sell on this forum :)

But there is nothing wrong with it in principle (apart from maybe cost).

Like the map book in another thread its a decent start into using terrain in your adventures.

We are monitoring it for the Sci-Fi option as it is much more varied genre than DnD. We want to set stories and adventures in a variety of settings and this gives us a nice bright background to an adventure.

Having said all that we are probably going to let this one slide, we think LordDust makes an excellent point, most of us have 2d colour printers add some card stock ......

In fact if we had a 3D printer we may be more likely to go for this as we can print tailor made props :)
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Re: Tenfold dungeon kickstart

Post by kodiakbear » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:57 am

MrMorden wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:06 pm
kodiakbear wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:03 pm
MrMorden wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:37 pm
I understand the need for cheaper options, but IMO that's what 3d printers are for.
But this is ready to use right out of the box, literally.
Sure, after you wait months for it to be shipped to you. You could print an entire dungeon and city setup before you ever see this KS delivered, and the printed stuff will look better.

What if you want a round room?
Next they can come out with the hat box series with round rooms from 24" down to 8". (Actually not a bad idea.)


In all seriousness, just so you know my positive comments about this are not from me in this universe where DF exists for me, nor bound to this particular KS. I was talking about this type of product being interesting to the vast number of gamers who want a product right out of a box. I can see through their eyes the joy of buying a published module and a dungeon in a box and the ppm and just playing the game. While in this universe I love to write my own adventures, design my dungeons and occasionally paint minis. I see others who do not, others who love turning toilet paper rolls into majestic forests and all of those in between.

I have no stake in this KS succeeding or failing. If they find the backers to make it happen so be it.

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