Mixed messages from DF?

Gargs454
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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by Gargs454 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:52 pm

MrMorden wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:58 pm
Gargs454 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:54 pm
Honestly, I am not too worried about this. Main reason being is that most terrain types really are not likely to require/be enhanced by, light boxes. I mean, take your DoD sets. Sure, the eldritch pools could be enhanced by a light box. And . . . that's really about it.
Lava Bridge is by far the largest encounter in DoD...
Right, but I was referring to the actual tile pieces (i.e. floors, walls, doors, stairs, daises, etc.,). And even with lava bridge being the largest encounter, that's still just one encounter even if its an incredibly large one.

@realarete: I mean sure, I suppose you could do the "glowy castle" and "glowy tavern" too, etc. But in your examples, you are talking about some realllllly specific settings. How many "glowing forest floors" are you going to include in a campaign? To the extent you want glowing fungus or lichen, I think that's something that's done better with leds than with an entire KSer worth of translucent terrain tiles for a forest just in case. Even the ice-scape is something that I wouldn't really see me spending big bucks to light it up because most of your ice-based adventures won't have glowing ice. I mean, glaciers don't glow, etc. Sure there might be this one specific magical glacier, but that's probably one encounter or adventure in an entire campaign. And even that is stretching it in my opinion.

More to the point though, what color should this ice be glowing? The light pads are one color only as they stand now. I don't see them selling them in multiple colors really because it just doesn't seem as though they would sell enough of each color to justify. That then leaves you with painting the ice the color you want it to glow. But if you're DF and you are trying to decide what color the ice should be painted for the fully painted option, what color do you go with? For unpainted its easy -- whatever color you want. But prepainted? No idea.

All of which is why I don't really see this as an issue. Lava is unique in that it really is anticipated that it would glow pretty much wherever. You can achieve a glow-like effect with a good paint job, but lighting it up is just so much easier. I sure as heck though don't see myself buying translucent dungeon floors though just in case I someday decide I want them to glow. Would I potentially buy a pack of say, forest floor dressing that has lights installed in things like mushrooms and lichen etc to give a forest floor some glow? Sure. But I'm not dropping money for straight up glowing forest floors.

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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by realarete » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:04 pm

MrMorden wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:21 am
I love the new KS pieces, they are marvelous! But...

I thought DF was going "all in" on negative space builds for areas like lava, and that terrain trays were the way forward. That is certainly what DF led us to believe.

Now with 6.66 we are back to tiles! I get that the two can work together, BUT you end up with areas of bright, glowy orange LED lava, and dull dark red unlit terrain tray lava, making for inconsistent build asthetics.

None of this stops me from buying 6.66, but I really wish DF would pick a direction and go with it. As it is I'm reluctant to commit big dollars to transluscent tiles and light panels, knowing next time the build type will likely be totally different.

I understand the need for innovation and trying new thinking. But stability and consistency in a product line is important, especially in products which are purely hobby toys...and expensive ones at that.

Just sayin'...
I agree with all of this. Once CoD arrives we will have T. trays for so many different types of terrain ... all of which can be fashioned in tiles with the build design of lava - that is 'veins of translucent dwarvenite" to allow light to pass through. Yeah I get that for lava everyone wants it to glow ... but if you are adventuring in HELL isn't it an easy stretch to want an ICE-scape glowing from underneath? A forest floor with glowing fungi and lichen or just cracks of light pouring out hinting at the radioactivity down there? A cavern floor illuminated by veins of glowing fungi, or "eldritch energy" Etc .. Just saying that any terrain could warrant a backlit design and fit right at home with any gamers palate. Ill have hundreds of dollars committed to terrain trays and BANKS ... oh man all those banks to do negative builds and make em look pretty ... they won't be glowing though :lol:

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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by scott102303 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:29 pm

I fly in a lot of builds, some pretty big, but for Hellscape if using light panels, I figure that one will have to be pre-built on my table. I agree with a lot of what has been said - I don't want to see everything all glowy. But I could see a few spots in most future DF Kickstarters taking advantage of them. Only Hellscape really says 'everything glows'.

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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by MrMorden » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:02 pm

I'm not worried about building on light panels per se. If I need a big build, I have large panels of MDF I have been using since before terrain trays, I could put a number of 8x8 panels on that and fly them all in at once.

My primary concern is that without magnets holding things in place, my amazing build will never make it to the table as all the DF pieces slide off the smooth and nearly friction free light panels...

I think you'd have to use poster tack or something similar to attach the pieces to the panels, and then pull it up when done. I do that to a lot of pieces in my big builds anyway, so it should work fine. But magnets and terrain trays sure are easier.

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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by MrMorden » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:58 pm

Gargs454 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:54 pm
Honestly, I am not too worried about this. Main reason being is that most terrain types really are not likely to require/be enhanced by, light boxes. I mean, take your DoD sets. Sure, the eldritch pools could be enhanced by a light box. And . . . that's really about it.
Lava Bridge is by far the largest encounter in DoD...

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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by MrMorden » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 pm

nielsene wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm
The phantasmal filters as shown in the live stream would not be rigid enough to prebuild/move without a rigid surface underneath them though. The combination light tray/filter probably is.
That's what I meant, not the filter alone.

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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by Gargs454 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:54 pm

Honestly, I am not too worried about this. Main reason being is that most terrain types really are not likely to require/be enhanced by, light boxes. I mean, take your DoD sets. Sure, the eldritch pools could be enhanced by a light box. And . . . that's really about it. It wouldn't make sense to cast a dungeon floor piece in translucent material because dungeon floors just don't glow (generally speaking). To the extent that your average dungeon setting needs something lit up, it can usually be handled with an led.

What about your typical cavern? Largely the same thing. The cavern floors are still going to be solid and thus, the magnetic trays make a lot of sense. Water? Yeah, occasionally that could be enhanced by a light box, but even then, you are likely talking about some sort of magical pool, not your typical river (though I suppose a setup could be worked out that would simulate the sun shining down on a lake/river, but even that is pretty specific and would be rendered useless if the encounter ends up occurring at night).

Forest floor? I hope its not glowing. etc., etc.

So yeah, there are instances where glow effects are really nice and made easier with a light box/pad (lava, crystal floors, etc.) but most often its not going to really enhance anything and maybe even detract. So all in all there will still be a place for terrain trays. The biggest issue would be with the lava trays where in theory, DF could say "Hey, just go with our Hellscape sets with light pads!". I suppose that is still possible, but DF doesn't really seem like the type of company to do that, especially since the terrain trays are probably a lot easier for them to store, and thus have in stock, and would go a long way toward attracting customers as they provide a much cheaper (albeit much less cool) option for doing lava. The lava tiles also have their place. They are just quite simply a hell of a lot cooler than the terrain trays, but they come at the much higher cost.

For me, I just bought the muli-pack of lava trays because I wanted to use the terrain tray to move my builds to my games (I game about 45 minutes from home but am the GM).

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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by nielsene » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:19 pm

I can pretty easily imagine still doing the bulk of my builds on terrain trays, but have a light tray highlight within the build -- a glowing pool, or altar, a haunted swamp, or enchanting mushroom ring forest. So I think there's room for both concepts to exit. The worry I have, is with the factory's pushback on multiple casting materials. W/o knowing yet what's going to be in KS7, I would still hope its back to an unpainted/painted that aren't translucent. Which means that I'd prefer to see lightbox enhanced pieces in a ks 7.XX keeping the translucent pieces to a separate run. Of course that would need pretty strong messaging/commitment from DF during KS7 that 'no light tray weren't a mistake, we'll be returning to them, but terrain for them is a smaller run apporach" type of thing.

There's a lot of things I'd like a couple translucent pieces of (a tree or two) but wouldn't want the unpainted folks to be forced into the different color base material issue as the new default.

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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by Rhizom » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:11 pm

Right! Prebuilt/move would work with light panels, I guess, from a stability point of view. But prebuilding on 8x8 and then moving all the 8 x 8 panels sounds a bit less practical to me than comfortably prebuilt 12 x 12 rooms on terrain trays. I am not yet convinced how useful those panels will be.

12x12 light panels would have convinced me instantly.
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Re: Mixed messages from DF?

Post by nielsene » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm

The phantasmal filters as shown in the live stream would not be rigid enough to prebuild/move without a rigid surface underneath them though. The combination light tray/filter probably is.

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