Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Talistran
Minotaur
Minotaur
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:52 pm

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by Talistran » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:58 am

AnimeSensei wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:02 pm
Please take this as feedback, not complaining. :(

I am not a real fan of them and I'll say why below.

I am not the biggest fan of the associated magnets either for the following reasons:
-They get in the way because on pieces like banks they are in the wrong places; this should have been caught before we got our pieces as it makes compatibility sometimes impossible with polarity.
-They are a lawsuit waiting to happen with kids or pets. DF states they are not toys but then shows videos every so often with kids playing with Dwarvenite to show how strong it is. If you ever get sued and say they're not for kids, those videos are going to hurt your case a lot. On top of that, if a kid dies from ingesting a magnet (or two) that's even worse.
-They increase cost
-Magnets fall out all. the. time. There are several threads about gluing your magnets after they fall out on these very forums.
-They seem to be there BECAUSE of the terrain trays or vice-versa
-I would keep magnets with the magnetic accessories as most parents won't be giving their little kids the small bits to play with, but they will potentially give them the floors/walls/corners.

In regards to the terrain trays:
-The metal is HEAVY. I have over 20 trays and I'm afraid they will break my IKEA Alex drawer and it's even supported.
-If possible, a stiff plastic, non-magnetizic option might be cheaper and still have the same look.
-They are expensive. If you don't care about magnets, cardboard works just as well for a better price. It's what WOTC does.
-The fabric overhang really ruins vertical builds. If you have to use metal, I would prefer some sort of decal over the metal instead of fabric, or a strong adhesive and a distinct edge at 12".
-I don't like the direction DF is going with terrain trays for their main layout. Plaguestone had it. It appears Wildlands has it. It looks cheap as opposed to the traditional awesomeness DF has historically provided. For what was done in Plaguestone, cardboard tiles would have been cheaper and had the same look.

Stick with sculpted stuff, it's what got DF to where it is today. DF was not a papercraft or mat company that grew into 3D terrain. It got to where it was because it pushed the envelope in visuals and tactile feel. Trays or other flat surfaces cheapen the brand in my opinion. If you are making the "world's finest dungeon terrain" then why settle?

I think DF has got too caught up in the magnets, lights, smoke, minis, and remotes and is increasing costs in those areas by cutting out something as essential as a sculpted floor/ground. People don't buy DF for the terrain trays, they buy DF for the sculpted terrain. What you're doing is owning a steak restaurant and selling fish. :(

I do like that you can build on a terrain tray and swoop it in, though I've never done that. I have used them to bring builds to a con and they helped there, so I do see their uses. But for the cost, it's just not worth it for me. I worry about edge wear around the metal, I worry about storage, and I don't like using the trays for a floor unless I absolutely have to; they are mainly used for their elevation ability, and then I get frustrated with the overhangs.

I really think there is a lot to work on with terrain trays, as for every 1 thing I like about them there are 4 things I don't. :( Maybe I'm just not the target market though. I do like them for things like the sludge, acid, etc. Something that is in a room on the floor and is FLAT (ie: not sculpted/3D), but doesn't cover a whole table.

I get water tiles are more expensive than a terrain tray, and DF keeps hitting on that point, but I never hear DF say how expensive dungeon or cavern floors are. I'm sure they cost around the same to produce.

Also, for covering a table like you do in the swamps we've seen in Wildlands, a battle mat would be cheaper if you're trying to cut costs.
I tremendously dislike terrain trays for ALL of these reasons. And every other reason on this thread so far.

They are not aesthetically pleasing, they ruin vertical builds, they are ugly when using more than one, they have cloth hanging over the edges no matter how hard you try, they are too thick so alter the build height, etc etc etc. etc.

I'll use a 4x6 mat, no problem, IF I want negative space. I MIGHT use a really nice layover (paper thin or THIN plastic) for lava and stack 3d tiles on top of it. But even then, I'd prefer to spend the money and BUY a 3d sculpted lava. Or a 3rd sculpted water.

Look at the popularity of the KS2 Water tile. It is simple and easy and WAY nicer than this negative terrain tray stuff. We have been BEGGING Stefan and Nate to a variety pack for years. We have started polls with pledges for hundreds over sets. We have planned out exactly what we want and tagged DF on it multiple times. Hell, Stefan even said he would due it but was apparently overruled by Nate.

Please...

User avatar
AnimeSensei
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 6154
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:03 pm
Location: South Weber, UT

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by AnimeSensei » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:02 pm

Please take this as feedback, not complaining. :(

I am not a real fan of them and I'll say why below.

I am not the biggest fan of the associated magnets either for the following reasons:
-They get in the way because on pieces like banks they are in the wrong places; this should have been caught before we got our pieces as it makes compatibility sometimes impossible with polarity.
-They are a lawsuit waiting to happen with kids or pets. DF states they are not toys but then shows videos every so often with kids playing with Dwarvenite to show how strong it is. If you ever get sued and say they're not for kids, those videos are going to hurt your case a lot. On top of that, if a kid dies from ingesting a magnet (or two) that's even worse.
-They increase cost
-Magnets fall out all. the. time. There are several threads about gluing your magnets after they fall out on these very forums.
-They seem to be there BECAUSE of the terrain trays or vice-versa
-I would keep magnets with the magnetic accessories as most parents won't be giving their little kids the small bits to play with, but they will potentially give them the floors/walls/corners.

In regards to the terrain trays:
-The metal is HEAVY. I have over 20 trays and I'm afraid they will break my IKEA Alex drawer and it's even supported.
-If possible, a stiff plastic, non-magnetizic option might be cheaper and still have the same look.
-They are expensive. If you don't care about magnets, cardboard works just as well for a better price. It's what WOTC does.
-The fabric overhang really ruins vertical builds. If you have to use metal, I would prefer some sort of decal over the metal instead of fabric, or a strong adhesive and a distinct edge at 12".
-I don't like the direction DF is going with terrain trays for their main layout. Plaguestone had it. It appears Wildlands has it. It looks cheap as opposed to the traditional awesomeness DF has historically provided. For what was done in Plaguestone, cardboard tiles would have been cheaper and had the same look.

Stick with sculpted stuff, it's what got DF to where it is today. DF was not a papercraft or mat company that grew into 3D terrain. It got to where it was because it pushed the envelope in visuals and tactile feel. Trays or other flat surfaces cheapen the brand in my opinion. If you are making the "world's finest dungeon terrain" then why settle?

I think DF has got too caught up in the magnets, lights, smoke, minis, and remotes and is increasing costs in those areas by cutting out something as essential as a sculpted floor/ground. People don't buy DF for the terrain trays, they buy DF for the sculpted terrain. What you're doing is owning a steak restaurant and selling fish. :(

I do like that you can build on a terrain tray and swoop it in, though I've never done that. I have used them to bring builds to a con and they helped there, so I do see their uses. But for the cost, it's just not worth it for me. I worry about edge wear around the metal, I worry about storage, and I don't like using the trays for a floor unless I absolutely have to; they are mainly used for their elevation ability, and then I get frustrated with the overhangs.

I really think there is a lot to work on with terrain trays, as for every 1 thing I like about them there are 4 things I don't. :( Maybe I'm just not the target market though. I do like them for things like the sludge, acid, etc. Something that is in a room on the floor and is FLAT (ie: not sculpted/3D), but doesn't cover a whole table.

I get water tiles are more expensive than a terrain tray, and DF keeps hitting on that point, but I never hear DF say how expensive dungeon or cavern floors are. I'm sure they cost around the same to produce.

Also, for covering a table like you do in the swamps we've seen in Wildlands, a battle mat would be cheaper if you're trying to cut costs.
100 Resin and 237 Dwarvenite Sets/Packs Owned

period3
Orc
Orc
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:34 am

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by period3 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:26 pm

The only thing that really bugs me about terrain trays it he overlapping material and that the size isn't quite right. At least some of my terrain trays don't seem to be 12".

But unless terrain tray 2.0 is a lot better, I'd prefer to not buy more. I have about 10 and that's enough for me.

User avatar
Mitch
Orc
Orc
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:06 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by Mitch » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:01 pm

I don't use TTs as I have my own gaming mats so I would hate to be forced into buying them if they are parts of the new sets. Please keep them separate so those that want them can buy them but those they don't use negative space or who have gaming mats already do not have to buy them.

weberemmanuel
Goblin
Goblin
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by weberemmanuel » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:44 pm

I mostly used TT to prepare section builds ahead of time bringing them to the table as needed. The 12x12 foot print is limiting and I would love to see larger size like 18x18 or 24x24 (I can see the challenges in shipping larger size).

For outdoor/negative space I find them annoying due to the small height offset and the flat look.
I would prefer to see some tiles even if it is more expensive but if we are going for TT I would prefer a very thin textured layer without the metal insert.

User avatar
William
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 4693
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:59 am
Location: Kent, WA

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by William » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:27 pm

I only have the 12"x12" Acid TT and have not used it to build yet.

But, being a negative Nancy too, I will say, the TT's are not for me. Don't like the extra material around the edges and really dislike magnets. It's not about safety with kids, they just are a pain in metal drawers and stack all funky. Not having used the small magnetic pieces yet, I have not run into the shifting floors in my builds as of this date, but if it happens those will be removed.

One more observation is, any Water represented TT's should not be made with cloth, you want the reflective shine of a hard/slick surface. At least I do.

I'm a 3D "Tile" man, so meh to TT's.
Also, I'm still waiting on a Wicked Water tile set to flush out the water tiles from KS-2. :?:
Sir William of the Basalt Region of Mythras
( aka: Rock Breaker Bill - Column Barron of BRoM )

User avatar
dice4hire
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 6218
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 7:13 pm
Location: Nagoya Japan

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by dice4hire » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:38 pm

I find I almost only use trays on the table surface anyway as they tend to be too much of a pain to put in elsewhere unless planned out very carefully in advance, so I would like to second the idea of selling the cloth only.

As for flying stuff in, I never do that. I wonder how many people really do. My table is not much of a fog of war kind of group in any case.

Magnets are annoying, as they do not often line up properly and so few pieces have magnets that they are kinda useless anyway. My builds need gravity to stay in place, so having a few pieces with magnets are more trouble then they are worth. Accessories for walls are great for magnets though. Also places to hang those accessories. Keep those coming.

I have no problem with the price point or size selections of terrain trays really, but I find tiles do the job better in almost every case.
A pretty decent Docent of Valoria

thomast22
Orc
Orc
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:59 am

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by thomast22 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:21 pm

Hello, I don't fly in my setups, but I do like/use negative space. Would it be possible to get the art on a mat? No metal.

zenako
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 2255
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:51 pm
Location: North of Boston

Re: Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by zenako » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:19 pm

A variety of things.
1) If not being used at the bottom level of things, they tend to stickout somewhere since the cloth is more than 12" wide.

2) Using them in a vertical build puts a small random offset in heights that can be annoying.

3) With magnetic tiles, too many of them have their magnets too close to the edge and make it hard to line up tiles where you want them, they tend to snap into another spot.

4) They are heavy (and sturdy) but a small stack of them is some serious weight.

5) You have to have planned well ahead to use them with magnetic tiles. Almost impossible to "slide them in" once you have started a build.

6) The patterns are the same over the whole surface generally. So it looks plain/simple.

7) Different generations of TT1.0 have slightly different sizes...grrr.

8) They are a neat idea and pretty well executed, but some of the above issues detract from their appeal. They are moderately pricy for the coverage. Since you can get a 3x3 (~$40) gaming mat for about the price of two TT, and if you get larger mats like a 4x6 one (~$50-$70 bucks) you get a lot more floor and many gaming mats have a range of patterns over the surface, sometimes the whole mat is different with basically no repetition.

Just some feedback from someone who has over a dozen TT at this point, and multiple 4x6 gaming mats.

Adustus
Goblin
Goblin
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:31 pm

Terrain Tray Feedback Thread

Post by Adustus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:43 pm

Hey everybody!

So, as we're heading into Wildlands, we thought it'd be nice to get your feedback on terrain trays. We know that they're more popular than some with others, and we'd like to know what about them works and doesn't work for you.

Our goal with terrain trays is to help increase flexibility and cover space with lower piece counts by covering basic environments like water, pits, or featureless open areas. We don't want to use them to replace sculpted terrain in the slightest, and only try to use them to cover situations where sculpted terrain wouldn't really be helpful. We have issues with the current trays ourselves, which is why we're continuing to iterate on the concept.

We're going to be revealing some things in this new Kickstarter that we think will address a lot of these concerns, but it would be helpful to have all of your thoughts on them collected in one thread so it's easier to reference. Especially if you're the kind of DM who likes to use them regularly in builds, thoughts on how they could better serve your style would be much appreciated.

Post Reply

Return to “Website & Other Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests