What Can We Improve for KS6?

Indignation
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Indignation » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:12 am

I saw someone say it somewhere, the whole point of the Kickstarter is to raise money for them to have all the molds made for new pieces so that they can then sell them. In return for our help we get early access to those pieces. Having two smaller KS each year would split the focus and the number of pieces unlocked would be fewer.

Also the factory thing and timing sounds like a huge issue. They did mention factory timing as a reason they couldn't wait any longer on castles to be delivered.

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kodiakbear
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by kodiakbear » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:03 am

I personally would not want two DF KS a year even if they were smaller but a single new add-on that came out in the web store during a fall restock would be a great x-mas gift idea.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by AnimeSensei » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:56 am

DF also is small enough they squeeze factory production time out in between the factory's major customers, right after the Christmas stuff is done (if I remember right). I don't think the factory has a lot of time around 6 months post-KS to start on a new run of something. DF has to cater to the factory's schedule due to its limited size.
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by kmj9907 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:43 am

Stormfury wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:47 pm
Mobius wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:43 pm
I know it doesn't make financial sense for DF to run multiple KS projects per year, but I would have been all over Burrows if they were a small KS on their own 6 months from now, but I had to skip them here and will likely never get any of them (there's already too many other things I need to catch up on from the DF store).
Doesn't this suggest it DOES make financial sense? I'd prefer 2 a year with a significantly smaller piece count than 1 massive one per year TBH. Like you I'd buy into Burrows 6 months from now, but as it is I'm passing.
While I wouldn't mind two smaller KS's per year, I think the much bigger issue is the mental and emotion strain of running a KS. Some companies, like CMON and Reaper, are large and can conduct it more as typical business, rather than a passion project. But DF is small and relies on the dedication of a number of people. CMON, I think, doesn't have to care if a dozen people start screaming from the rooftops how they don't like how things are going in a campaign; it'll still have 15,000 backers and make millions, whatever Eric Lang designed game it is. DF does have to care, and deal with and respond to every little issue in some way. DF has people like Knightess and Geekjeff and Lady Sabelle and Elye there at all hours of the day to field the myriad questions that arise. Running a KS is highly stressful and extremely intrusive to a person's life... I have no doubt it takes over their lives. If the DF folks say "no way we're doing two of these a year!" I completely understand. Financial sense isn't the only sense we have to worry about.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by kmj9907 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:33 am

GODofwar wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:32 pm
Two simple examples.

ONE Trog, Dan, ranted and ranted about a Cages set. he got it.

A few Commenters ranted and ranted about a Big Box with a usable surface on the lid. They got it.
To my knowledge you are incorrect about both of these examples. Based on my understanding of the flow of conversation, a cages add-on was always planned. Yes, Dan asked for it every day, even long after Nate told him it would be released on the 10th... but there is no evidence that DF was catering to him in any way. Moreover, there is plenty of evidence of DF saying "no" to requests for specific add-on compositions.

The elevation platform was not a new piece that was requested during this Kickstarter. That was designed and introduced by DF from the beginning. I'd like to see the "rants" you're referring to. Some of us definitely requested that the lid be made usable -- not a new piece, just a design request for an object they didn't even have a working prototype for. (They mentioned on a few occasions, they were waiting to receive the prototype -- they couldn't comment on how many pieces it would hold, because they didn't know what it would look like exactly.) I was one of those people, and when I was told it wouldn't be done, I stopped asking. I never ranted. But new backers kept showing up asking why the lid wasn't playable. DF reconsidered, and changed the design. I love them for that; you're right that it is a prime example of them listening and being responsive. However, it in no way increased the complexity or piece count of the campaign. It turned an expensive, yet modestly functional piece (adding 3/8" elevation to the platform) into a highly function piece (either adding 3/8" elevation to the platform OR adding 121 square inches of playable space and 144 square inches of coverage to your setup) at what I assume to me a small, possibly negligible increase in price.

You may not care much about the concerns of your fellow backers, but it's a two way street... if you don't give a damn about others' thoughts, don't expect them to pay any attention to yours. And if you do, at least take some care in getting the facts straight.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by AnimeSensei » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:16 am

Dolken wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:20 pm
AnimeSensei next year I might message you ... lol

But seriously I hate chase pieces.

My 2 coppers.
Dolken


Haha I don't know if I have that much money! That's so much stuff, you lucky person you!
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Kryzsko » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:05 am

Dolken wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:20 pm
I have read all the view points in this thread and agree with almost all of them. One view point I have not seen here are from the "whales".

I am going to guess I would be classed as a "whale". I have 10 sets plus of KS 1 and 10 sets KS 2. Also two empire sets and 16 monster sewers, $11,000 of castles KS, and put $7000 to KS 5. So maybe I am a Gray Whale as I know I am not anywere near a Blue Whale.

So from my stand point as a "whale" the chase pieces (cap stones) are the bonus to entice the encounter packs to be bought. And the hope is the more encounter bought the cheaper they become to make, I assume. But this tactics to me is more of a preorder system not a KS model of asking for funds to get molds made in return for products. What I believe the cap stones should be turn into is a set for all KS backers to be able to buy as the KS money is used to make the molds for the cap stones. I would either make the cap stone set a limited edition painted set, diffrent from the encounter set, or only unpainted and be offered to KS backers only to buy and sell the few overage on the web store.

I hope the KS team sees this and give it some thought.

As far as the running and structure of the KS was great. More videos, different builds of the encounters, better streaming.

The SG were used to make the encounters better for sales in the web store, again I am assume, as this to me was the main reason for the KS. So those to me were fine. I do understand the old timers point of view of not wanting the walls, floors, corners. But this is why the KS was made to get these new dungeon encounters made and in the web store.

I think Dwarven Forge went out of the way to make as many add-ons for the backers who did not want the floor, walls and corners is in of it's self a SG of sorts. As these special packs cost money.

I will admit I do not like chase pieces. I do not like false rarity as we know the KS money is used to made the molds.

I will state very simply if the chase piece system is used again with so many chase piece I will most likely do what I did with magic the gathering and just sell it off and walk away.

AnimeSensei next year I might message you ... lol

But seriously I hate chase pieces.

My 2 coppers.
Dolken
I agree. I think chase pieces punish collectors and fans. It says to them "Look at all these cool pieces you can't afford and if you want them you will need to buy a bunch of stuff you don't need."

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Kryzsko » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:51 pm

The one big improvement should be no encounter exclusives. I hate those and I am getting an unpainted DoD. They are not fair to backers with a small budget and to collectors who backed the older projects and don't need a ton of the new pieces. People should not have to spend $2550 to get all the exclusive pieces.

Reaper does no exclusives in their KS projects and does just fine.

The next KS should be more long time collector friendly.

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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by Stormfury » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:47 pm

Mobius wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:43 pm
I know it doesn't make financial sense for DF to run multiple KS projects per year, but I would have been all over Burrows if they were a small KS on their own 6 months from now, but I had to skip them here and will likely never get any of them (there's already too many other things I need to catch up on from the DF store).
Doesn't this suggest it DOES make financial sense? I'd prefer 2 a year with a significantly smaller piece count than 1 massive one per year TBH. Like you I'd buy into Burrows 6 months from now, but as it is I'm passing.
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Re: What Can We Improve for KS6?

Post by GODofwar » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:45 pm

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:00 am
Started reading all the posts in this thread - but then realised 'I have a life' ;) and what others think will not change my opinion that I have been asked to share :)
The personal improvements are more selfish improvements I'd like to see just for me and/or others in Europe :)

Improve for KSVI:
- video quality of the live feeds - was not as good as previous years and failed to show the majesty of Toby's builds

YESS!

Things not to Change in KSVI
- keep the add-ons coming each day - this makes the daily visit to the KS much more exciting :)

YESS!

- the constant DF presence in the Comments - helped everyone feel that DF were listening and that we were all part of the KS.

This is critical and tied to all else...Add-Ons were frequently direcdt responses to Comments....the most famous being Dan the Gaoler man and his incessant (and successful) rant for a jail cell AO!

- don't stop having fun on the Livefeeds - don't make it a sterile Q&A session - keep it organic and keep showing us how excited you guys are about this stuff.

This is all about gaming...which should mean fun....

Other musings - I felt again that this KS was as complicated as backers wanted to make it. If you wanted cool stuff it was simple - if you wanted to maximise coverage or concerned about a particular piece(s) then it got complicated, real complicated.

Perfect summary, Rabbit! Put another way...everyone could CHOOSe to have what they want...complexity (do a min/maxcalculation of wants v. what KS5 offered) or simplicity (pick encounters within your budget).

So much of this stuff is subjective and determined by the individuals needs, the same applies for DF. There is no keeping everyone happy, this KS got closer to that happy medium that the previous 2 (CBS & Castles) I backed.

I argue that this KS should have kept everyone happy. We could all,Type I, II or III, get very close to what we want. The problem is that a lot of Commenters seem to demand perfection instead of success...

The biggest tell for me was in the comments section, this year was the most positive I have seen in the last 3 KSers.

One last thing, on beans - prefer less beans - the horror!!!! I prefer to be surprised, as I state above its about the KS experience - loved the burrows encounter - how cool would it have been if we did not know what that encounter was even called.

This is near blasphemy, but I am on Rabbit's side here...


One last last thing to change for KSVI
More RUINS!!!!!!!
LOTS more ruins. Also some explanaetion for the wildly varying number of Bunnnies in the Comments. I am sure it drove Laurentas nuts when he tried to figure out how many cdroissants to bake...

The Least Weasel
Totus KS Delenda Sunt, oh, Baroness Sabelle...
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