How Sellers Commit Fraud on eBay/Paypal, so you can avoid it

User avatar
GrumpyOne
Orc
Orc
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:44 pm
Location: NH

Re: How Sellers Commit Fraud on eBay/Paypal, so you can avoid it

Post by GrumpyOne » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:46 pm

dice4hire wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:47 pm
I am kind of wondering why this thread is here in the first place.
I agree. And the lack of combined shipping is no different on many other sites besides ebay. If you purchase multiple books/items from a third party seller on Amazon, you get charged shipping for each item. Period. And most of them have no intention of refunding any shipping overages. Alibris does it as well. A lot of the larger book sellers factor shipping per item into their per-item price so they don't offer combined shipping. They look at it as $3.99 to ship per item...it doesn't matter if you buy one or 100, it is still $3.99 per item so consider that before bidding/buying, not after.

As for the individual pieces versus the entire set, what happens if a seller has a set (especially resin) with damaged pieces so they can't sell it as a complete item? Why not piece it out? Some buyers prefer to just pick up certain pieces to add to their existing set instead of a complete item. What if they have a set returned that had pieces lost in shipping or they bought out someone that only had partial sets. They have to sell these somewhere.

Bottom line is it isn't fraud, it's just their way of selling. No one is forcing anyone to buy from them.
"Initial success or total failure"

User avatar
marcoreds
Orc
Orc
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:24 am

Re: How Sellers Commit Fraud on eBay/Paypal, so you can avoid it

Post by marcoreds » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:43 am

When I want to buy multiple items from the same seller, and there is no indication of combined shipping, I contact the seller to ask if he is offering combined shipping.

If he doesn't answer me, I assume he doesn't, so I decide whether or not to go on with the purchase knowing that I will pay the sum of the shipping costs, with no reduction.

I don't see any scam in this.

I have to say, most of the times the seller tells me he will offer some reduction, and he will send me the total after the purchase. Any reduction I get is welcome, and I don't expect massive reductions, unless in the communication the seller specifies me exactly what the reduction will be (this never actually happened to me, most have to prepare the package and check with the carrier what the cost becomes, so they don't know exactly themselves in advance).

I would not leave negative feedback if a seller does not offer me a combined shipping reduction when that is not specified, or if the reduction he gives me is not what I was expecting.

But that's just my view.

Talistran
Ogre
Ogre
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:52 pm

Re: How Sellers Commit Fraud on eBay/Paypal, so you can avoid it

Post by Talistran » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:33 am

dice4hire wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:47 pm
I am kind of wondering why this thread is here in the first place.
Yah, not sure.

If you bid on 8 items and they don't list that they'll combine shipping and then put what the combined shipping looks like (i.e. "3.99 for first item, $0.25 for each additional item"), then you are AGREEING to pay $3.99 per item. There is no fraud there. They listed $3.99 per item for shipping. You bid on it. Deal with it. If you want combined shipping, ask BEFORE you bid.

Pretty simple.

I'm sorry you had troubles with a seller, but from the way you explained it, I just don't see Fraud.

User avatar
dice4hire
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 4070
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 7:13 pm
Location: Nagoya Japan

Re: How Sellers Commit Fraud on eBay/Paypal, so you can avoid it

Post by dice4hire » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:47 pm

I am kind of wondering why this thread is here in the first place.
A pretty decent Docent of Valoria

User avatar
Rabbit Burner
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 2600
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:14 am
Location: Flaming bunny Warren, Valoria

Re: How Sellers Commit Fraud on eBay/Paypal, so you can avoid it

Post by Rabbit Burner » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:01 pm

Honestly don't see this as fraud. Though not exactly customer friendly practice and would not choose to use that seller again.

But for each individual item you pay the shipping it costs to send that item as listed in the auction.

Buyer knows what the price is including shipping - all black and white, Clean and Simple (apparently not).

Whilst you would like to think a seller selling you multiple items would discount shipping if they are posting them all together, don't think you should necessarily expect it. Or at least I would not, probably would even think to ask (more fool me).

When selling on ebay I don't charge shipping, I offer it free, though the starting price is at shipping cost (don't want to make a loss). I sell on ebay more to get rid of stuff that might sell, not solely to make any profit (though that's nice) and don't do it often.

I had a buyer buy 3 books I had listed individually and asked if I could give them a discount on shipping.

I pointed out that there was no shipping charge, did not get any feedback on that one.
Was I defrauding the buyer? didn't think so, though the cost of winning each auction covered shipping of the items individually. They were sent in one package, but dont think I am doing anything wrong, but perhaps I am.

This post probably says more about my naïve buying practices and dubious selling morals than anything else.
Mythrassian Lagomorph Hivemind Minion of the Flaming Bunny Clan

User avatar
AnimeSensei
Minotaur Lord
Minotaur Lord
Posts: 4310
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:03 pm
Location: South Weber, UT

Re: How Sellers Commit Fraud on eBay/Paypal, so you can avoid it

Post by AnimeSensei » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:10 pm

Another good reason to make sure you do your homework on sellers. Thanks for the tips! Sorry you spent so long on the phone trying to solve your issue. :(
104 Resin and 205 Dwarvenite Sets/Packs Owned

User avatar
seraphic
Goblin
Goblin
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:27 pm
Location: Foum Tataouine

How Sellers Commit Fraud on eBay/Paypal, so you can avoid it

Post by seraphic » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:49 pm

The seller that is defrauding the buyer will follow several steps.
You should learn these steps, so you won't be defrauded like this


1) List all items individually

Any buyer foolish enough to bid on multiple auctions from the same seller has selected themselves as the target for fraud.

Example: Lets say you are listing 20 related books in a series. Instead of listing them as one big batch, list each of them individually. Each will have a minimum shipping cost. Since these are books, we will say shipping cost is $3.17 each for Media Mail, but the seller may feel free to make it higher for no reason. Next, lets assume one buyer wins 8 auctions, while the other auctions go individually or in lots of two. The seller won't be able to defraud anyone significantly on small lots, but the 8 lot winner has a total shipping charge of $25.36.

DEFEATING IT: Never bid on more than 1 auction by the same gouging seller. A gouging seller will usually ignore your communication regarding combining shipping, so they can claim ignorance afterward. This is a key tell.


2) When shipping is totalled offer a discount

Next, offer your buyer a small shipping discount on the invoice you send. This serves two useful purposes. First, it implies to the buyer that you are reasonable and will work with them, when the opposite is true. More importantly, this prevents your buyer from leaving feedback in the DSRs on the shipping and handling price, automatically leaving 5 stars in that part, because of the discount (despite the massive fraudulent overcharge!)!

Example: Continuing from above: The 8 lot winner has a total shipping charge of $25.36. Offer a shipping discount of $10. This leaves a total shipping fee paid of $15.26. The actual shipping cost, for Media Mail, and with the eBay discount, comes out to about $7. You pocket the remaining $8.26 of pure (fraudulent) profit, and the best part is you get automatic 5 Stars on your DSR's for shipping price! The buyer can't even do anything about it!

DEFEATING IT: Do not pay. Let them file their non-paying bidder complaints. Until the shipping charge is what it should be, do not pay. Once you pay, you are hooked, landed, and skinned, and your money is gone. Deal with it.


3) The buyer will probably contact you when he/she realizes that you are defrauding them by charging more than double the actual shipping cost. Your goal is to get the buyer to state that if you do not refund the amount you are defrauding them by, they will leave negative feedback telling the truth about your fraud. This is easier to do than it sounds, because of absurd notions some people have about "justice". Once the buyer has then left negative feedback, your fraud is nearly complete. You complain to eBay about "Feedback Extortion" and eBay will remove the negative feedback accurately describing exactly what you did to the buyer.
Once eBay removes feedback, it can never be re-instated, and the buyer can never leave feedback for those transactions.
Thus, none of your future buyers will know that you will defraud them in exactly the same manner!

Example: The buyer contacts you, saying something like "A $15.26 shipping charge seems unreasonable for something that costs $7 to ship. You will send a refund, right?" You state that the money you are defrauding them of is a special handling charge. They will probably respond remarking on the absurdity of the statement (especially with all that work you saved them by shipping one package instead of eight) and state they will leave accurate and truthful feedback on your account about what you did. Once they do this, you have won. When they leave negative feedback, describing exactly what you did, complain to eBay about "feedback extortion", and the accurate and truthful feedback will be removed!

DEFEATING IT: Do not ever mention the work "feedback" to a seller. Not EVER! If you even think about using the word "feedback", your seller is setting you up, and you should respond accordingly, usually with a complete return.


Takeaways:

-The first step in defrauding the buyer by gouging on shipping is to offer multiple auctions and make no statements about combining shipping. Ignore any messages sent about the subject of combined shipping, and pretend ignorance afterward.
AVOIDING FRAUD: Bid on only 1 auction at a time, for a seller that engages in gouging shipping prices. Probe the seller to discover if they intend to gouge their buyers on shipping. Silence means they will gouge you.

-The second step is combining shipping and applying a small shipping discount, much smaller than the exact shipping price would merit. You will get automatic 5 stars on the shipping price DSRs even though you defrauded your buyer by charging more than double the actual shipping.
AVOIDING FRAUD: Do not pay. Take the non-paying bidder hit, unless the seller updates the invoice for exact shipping.

-The third step is to get the buyer to mention something about negative feedback. Once they do this, your fraud is complete and you are free and clear. After the buyer does this, contact eBay, they will remove the negative feedback, the buyer will be unable to do anything, and your future targets will not be warned.
AVOIDING FRAUD: Never mention feedback, and immediately return the parcel for full cost plus full shipping.



FINAL NOTE:
Lastly, eBay and Paypal know about these things, and will do nothing about it if you are defrauded in this way. I discovered this after 3 hours on the phone with their useless customer service departments. The steps outlined above are your only recourse.

Hopefully this helps you avoid fraudulent sellers.
woe be to him that defies the tree,
for he shall be cast out into the world
through the veils of pain and fire

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests